For ease of retrieval, I will post links here to various lists and collections that may still be considered ongoing. I will start with the various spreadsheets I manage. For discussion of what else can be included in this thread, see here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Handwriting of f116v: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Project started by Marco Ponzi and myself, currently extensive enough to draw some conclusions. Best matches so far were found in central Germany and Zurich. Data suggest early 15th century. I will no longer actively contribute myself, but additions are always welcome - please request editing rights through the sheet. At least one forum member (Garlonga) is sporadically adding to the list.

Handwriting of the month names: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Intended as a collaborative project. This is far from finished, needs many more entries and may benefit from improvements. Most challenging project due to high variety in informal handwriting.
- Discussion thread: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Names of the months as they appear in the Zodiac section: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Collaborative project based on earlier research and new entries. There is a lot here already, but certainly not enough to solve the problem. Any additions are useful.
- Discussion thread: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Rating bulls: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Collaborative project aiming to find properties of the Zodiac section's "Taurus" in other MSS.
- Discussion thread: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Similar plants Herbal/Pharma: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
A collaborative effort was undertaken to collect and rate plants and plant parts that appear in both botanical sections of the MS. I host the file, but was not the main organizer.
- Discussion thread: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Map of Swallowtail Merlons: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
See this thread for info: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Hello all, looking through the manuscripts on ecodicesNL I came across a manuscript with more "matches" in writing style than other manuscripts in the collection. I thought I would share them here, as there is a mix of some "VM-style" symbols, but also the usage of the letter styles found in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. marginalia. 

Manuscript: Deventer, Athenaeumbibliotheek : 111 E 7 KL 
Ijssel Region, First half of 15th century
Link to manuscript: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

   


Usage of ß 

Im not sure about how many dutch manuscripts have been found with this writing style and variance of symbols. In 15th century ijssel region, i would think that the native language of the author(s) would be somewhere on the spectrum between middle dutch, lower saxon or german, but i'm not certain. If so, the "so nim" section could plausibly be written by someone from the region.

This manuscript uses ß throughout the text. Was that symbol used in middle dutch, or was it a strictly german letter? Either way, perhaps relevant to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. marginalia "muß".

"Her" examples

There are many examples of "Her", with varied looping styles. To my untrained eye, most are similar to f17r for the H and E. The R is different. I would be interested to know the meaning of this word within this latin manuscript and the context of its usage. Many of them are captialised, but some are not.

Its noteworthy that many of these capital H's consist of a seperated left side stroke that is almost identical to the L mentioned later in this post. Perhaps the writer on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. began writing a H one word too early instead of L, noticed their mistake before completing the H and could simply leave it alone with the legible L intact. 

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Hi everybody, I have a theory that the manuscript is not a book with sentences, but with instructions that link the sections. I have seen a pattern in the Botanical section that tells you depending on the day of the year, which plant should you take, but I need someone to backup my theory. Can anyone tell me if this is the correct transcription of folios 1v and 2r? Thanks. Alejandro

Hello everyone,

I would like to share a
  A Procedural Reading of the Voynich Manuscript Based on Abbreviated Medieval Latin.pdf (Size: 205.3 KB / Downloads: 33)

My approach, called SAM (Système d’Analyse Morphologique / Morphological Analysis System), treats the text as a technical, procedural notation written in heavily abbreviated medieval Latin (14th–15th century style), rather than a ciphered natural language or an invented script.
Key points of the method:

• I deliberately exclude EVA (Extensible Voynich Alphabet) and all phonetically-oriented transcriptions, i use my own transcription based on ancien alphabet.
  
• I have created my own functional, glyph-based transcription system that groups shapes directly into operational units (e.g. roaux → radix, ora → hora/time marker, chod/chot → coquere/ripening process, re- → reprise/repetition, bauba/baux → bulbus/base, etc.).
  
• These units are not phonetic values but functional markers inspired by abbreviated Latin in medieval botanical, medical and alchemical recipe books.
  
• I've only used AI assistance specifically to help expand and rephrase the abbreviated forms into plausible, non-classical medieval Latin sentences, while keeping the interpretation probabilistic and revisable.
  
• Every reading is systematically cross-checked against the illustrations (root emphasis, plant structure, cyclical diagrams, bathing scenes) to ensure procedural coherence.
  

• consistency of marker assignments across sections,
  
• parallels (or contradictions) with known abbreviated Latin manuscripts,
  
• iconographic fit.
  

Hello folks,

Looking at the images, it appears to me it would be easier to draw the images first and then fill the text, and text do seem to conform to the images, not the other way around.

I only found one instance where the image appears to obscure the text:



But it appears they only made the last character smaller, not the image is over the text itself.

What do you think?

Thanks!

Hello there,

it has been already established that the Herbal section has Herbal-A and Herbal-B dialects present, which differ in several ways (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
One of the significant differences is presence of "shed"/"ched"/"eed"/"edy" and others, which I used to generate the pixel maps separated by quires
   

The Quire 4 shows that folios 26 and 31 use Currier B,
   
Quire 5 has folios 33,34,39 and 40 in Currier B,
Quire 6 has folios 41,43,46 and 48 in Currier B,
Quire 7 has folios 55 and 55 in Courier B,
lastly all 4 pages of Quire 8 are in Courier B.

So those quiers were most likely reorganized, and could potentially be two quires in Courier A , and two other in Courier B, which should simplify further statistical analysis.

Here is the official trailer:

here is a curious thing about the 327 parags of the Starred Parags section:

No two parags end with the same pair of words.

If we look only at the last word of each parag,  we still get 271 distinct words.

Of these, 236 occur in only one parag. Those that occur at the end of two or more parags, and their counts, are 

  7 chedy

  5 cheody
  5 lchedy
  5 qokeey

  4 otain

  3 alkam
  3 cheey
  3 chey
  3 keedy
  3 otaiin

  2 aiinal
  2 am
  2 choty
  2 daiin
  2 lam
  2 lkaiin
  2 lkeey
  2 lky
  2 okaiin
  2 okain
  2 okal
  2 okaly
  2 okeedy
  2 olaiin
  2 olam
  2 olor
  2 olshedy
  2 oraiin
  2 oram
  2 oteey
  2 qokaiin
  2 qokain
  2 shedy
  2 sheody
  2 shol


It was already known that the first words of parags tended to be unique, but that was sort of expected because they probably were the name of the plant or whatever that the parag was about.  As is typically the case with herbals and materiae medicae.  

But it is intriguing that the last words are mostly unique too...

All the best, --stolfi

shower thoughts, I'm sure there's a big hole somewhere used chat gpt 5.2 for data comparisons, but i figure its an interesting idea
first thought i started with was what if the words are just a phonetic way of explaining how a symbol is written the rest is post-hoc as i had new things pop in my head
after having chatgpt structure it better than my high school level self could i cross posted it to Claude to check it and this is the result, i have a feeling im missing a basic thing that destroys the entire argument but lack the knowledge of what it is so have at it
(this is not a translation) (method and tools used are listed)

================================================================================
A STRUCTURAL INTERPRETATION OF THE VOYNICH MANUSCRIPT
BASED ON SYMBOLIC MEDICAL ENCODING
================================================================================

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
================================================================================

This analysis proposes that the Voynich Manuscript is not written in a
natural language and is not a cipher of prose, but instead encodes symbolic
medical-astrological knowledge using phonetic labels for conceptual symbols,
structured according to medieval Galenic medicine.

Under this model:

* Voynich "words" are not semantic vocabulary units.
* They function as spoken labels for symbolic qualities, attributes, or
  categories.
* Meaning is expressed relationally, not linguistically.
* The manuscript behaves as a taxonomic reference system, not narrative text.

This framework accounts simultaneously for:

* extreme word repetition
* lack of synonyms
* stable word lengths
* strong section-specific vocabularies
* failure of translation attempts
* structured but shallow grammar
* diagram-dependent text layout

No conventional linguistic or cipher-based model explains all of these
features together.


1. WHY THE TEXT DOES NOT BEHAVE LIKE LANGUAGE
================================================================================

Across the manuscript:

* Word order shows structure but no recursion.
* "Sentences" do not embed clauses.
* Vocabulary does not evolve or vary contextually.
* The same tokens repeat without semantic drift.
* No clear grammatical markers for tense, agent, or subject appear.

However, the text does show:

* positional constraints
* template repetition
* morphological families
* consistent slot ordering
* section-based dialect separation

These are characteristic of notation systems, not languages.


2. PHONETIC SYMBOL LABELS
================================================================================

The proposed model is that Voynich words represent:

    "Phonetic spellings of symbolic concept names, rather than linguistic
    words."

This is historically attested in:

* Egyptian hieroglyphic glosses
* early Chinese writing
* medieval alchemy manuals
* astrological reference tables
* herbal and lapidary catalogues

In such systems:

* symbols have fixed names
* synonyms are avoided
* repetition is expected
* grammar is shallow
* context determines interpretation

The Voynich manuscript matches this behavior closely.


3. FOUR PRIMARY QUALITIES (GALENIC MEDICINE)
================================================================================

Medieval medicine universally relied on four elemental qualities:

* Hot
* Cold
* Wet
* Dry

These qualities governed:

* planetary influence
* zodiac signs
* herbs
* baths
* pharmaceutical preparations

Importantly, they were not binary - each quality was measured in:

    "degrees 1 through 4"

These degrees were frequently encoded without numbers, using:

* repetition
* morphological expansion
* compound descriptors


4. EMPIRICAL FINDINGS FROM THE VOYNICH CORPUS
================================================================================

Using the IVTFF transcription:

A. Attribute words respond to subject matter
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When comparing sections:

* Bath pages show strong enrichment of certain tokens.
* Herbal pages suppress those same tokens.
* Zodiac pages modulate usage by planetary ruler.

This behavior cannot be random.


B. Wet-associated tokens
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Certain word families appear far more frequently in bath sections:

Examples (phonetic families):

    ot-
    shey-
    sheol-

These are:

* dominant in baths
* frequent in Moon and Venus zodiac signs
* rare in dry herbal and pharma contexts

They behave exactly as wet/moisture qualities should.


C. Dry-associated tokens
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other families show the inverse pattern:

    qok-
    saiin-
    chol-
    chy-

These are:

* suppressed in baths
* dominant in pharma
* prevalent in Mars and Saturn signs

They behave exactly as dry qualities.


D. Hot vs Cold polarity
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By comparing zodiac signs ruled by:

* hot planets (Sun, Mars, Jupiter)
* cold planets (Moon, Saturn)

a consistent polarity emerges:

Hot-associated families:

    ched-
    shed-
    chey-

Cold-associated families:

    saiin-
    daiin-
    chol-
    chy-

These same tokens appear in herbs and pharma with the same polarity.


5. DEGREE STRUCTURE (1-4)
================================================================================

Across all four qualities, the manuscript shows a consistent four-tier
intensity system:

    Degree | Encoding method
    -------|---------------------------
    1      | root form
    2      | root + y
    3      | root + aiin
    4      | root + chedy / dy / compound

This is visible in:

* frequency stratification
* morphological expansion
* repetition density
* slot positioning

No family exhibits five stable tiers.

This precisely matches medieval Galenic degree notation.


6. PLANETARY MODULATION
================================================================================

Zodiac sections demonstrate:

* suppression of wet terms in Saturn signs
* dominance of wet terms in Moon signs
* dry-hot dominance in Mars signs
* balanced profiles in Jupiter signs

This modulation holds even when page length and scribal density vary.

This behavior is diagnostic of astrological medicine.


7. FUNCTIONAL INTERPRETATION
================================================================================

Under this model, Voynich text lines encode:

    [ENTITY] + [QUALITY] + [QUALITY] + [DEGREE] + [RELATION]

Example (not literal translation):

    "Herb - hot - dry - degree three - Mars-governed"

The manuscript therefore functions as:

* a medical reference
* a mnemonic catalog
* an instructional system

-not readable prose.


8. WHY THIS EXPLAINS ALL MAJOR VOYNICH ANOMALIES
================================================================================

Feature                | Explanation
-----------------------|----------------------
High repetition        | fixed symbol names
No synonyms            | taxonomic system
Short stable words    | phonetic labels
Section dialects      | different symbol sets
Grammar-like feel      | slot notation
No translation        | not language
Diagram dependence    | symbolic reference
Statistical regularity | controlled ontology

No competing theory accounts for all of these simultaneously.


CONCLUSION
================================================================================

The Voynich Manuscript behaves consistently as:

    "A phonetic encoding of Galenic-astrological medical symbolism,
    structured by degree-based intensity and planetary doctrine."

It is meaningful - but not linguistic.


================================================================================
METHODOLOGY FOR STRUCTURAL ANALYSIS
================================================================================


1. SCOPE AND RESEARCH GOAL
================================================================================

The purpose of this analysis was not to translate the Voynich Manuscript,
nor to identify its language, but to determine:

    "whether consistent, reproducible internal structure exists and whether
    that structure aligns with known medieval knowledge systems."

The study intentionally avoids assumptions about:

* language family
* cipher type
* phonetic value
* modern semantic meaning

Instead, it examines distributional behavior, positional structure, and
cross-section correlation.


2. PRIMARY RESEARCH QUESTIONS
================================================================================

1. Do Voynich "words" behave like linguistic vocabulary, or like symbolic
  labels?
2. Are tokens reused in predictable structural contexts?
3. Do different manuscript sections (herbal, zodiac, baths, pharma) show
  statistically distinct behavior?
4. Can recurring word families be identified through morphology and
  distribution?
5. Do these patterns correspond to known medieval classification systems?


3. DATA SOURCES
================================================================================

3.1 Primary Corpus
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Voynich Manuscript transcription
* Format: IVTFF (Interlinear Voynich Transcription File Format)
* Source: Voynich.nu LSI transcription
* Source URL: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
* File used: voynich.nu_data_beta_LSI_ivtff_0d.txt.mht
* Access date: January 20, 2026

This transcription includes:

* folio identifiers
* locus-level segmentation
* page-type metadata
* standardized EVA glyph transliteration


3.2 Page-Type Classification
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IVTFF metadata includes page identifiers:

Code | Section
-----|---------------------
H    | Herbal
Z    | Zodiac
B    | Balneological (bath)
P    | Pharmaceutical
T    | Text-only

These categories were used to compare token behavior across thematic domains.


4. ANALYTICAL TOOLS
================================================================================

Software and Libraries
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Python 3.11
* Standard libraries:
  - collections
  - re
  - math
  - pandas
  - numpy


Computational Assistance
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Large language models (ChatGPT 5.2, Claude 4.5) were used for:

- Corpus preprocessing automation
- Statistical result visualization
- Pattern identification assistance
- Code generation for frequency analysis

All computational outputs were manually verified against raw data.
No interpretation or hypothesis generation was delegated to AI systems.


Analytical Techniques
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Token frequency analysis
* Cross-section frequency comparison
* Log-odds ratio testing
* Morphological clustering (edit-distance-based)
* Positional analysis (line and page)
* Sectional enrichment comparison
* Co-occurrence analysis

No machine learning models were used for pattern detection or classification.


5. ANALYTICAL PROCEDURE
================================================================================

Step 1 - Tokenization
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All transcribed EVA tokens were extracted using:

* punctuation removal
* locus boundary preservation
* normalization to lowercase
* segmentation at word separators

This produced a full token corpus of the manuscript.


Step 2 - Sectional Frequency Profiling
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For each token:

* frequency was computed independently for:
  - herbal pages
  - zodiac pages
  - bath pages
  - pharmaceutical pages

This allowed identification of tokens that were:

* section-neutral
* section-enriched
* section-suppressed


Step 3 - Identification of Structural (Non-Semantic) Tokens
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tokens exhibiting:

* extremely high global frequency
* very low positional entropy
* appearance across all sections
* strong adjacency predictability

were classified as structural markers, not content terms.

Examples include short recurring forms analogous to grammatical particles
or classifiers.

These were excluded from later semantic testing.


Step 4 - Morphological Family Detection
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tokens were grouped into families when they showed:

* Levenshtein distance ≤ 2
* AND shared positional behavior
* AND similar cross-section distribution

For example:

    otol / oty / otaiin / otedy / oteody

were treated as a single functional family.

This step significantly reduced noise and clarified structural patterns.


Step 5 - Cross-Section Correlation Testing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Each token family was compared across manuscript sections.

Particular attention was given to:

* bath pages vs herbal pages
* zodiac pages vs all others

The guiding principle was:

    "If tokens encode conceptual properties, their distribution should
    respond to subject matter."

This test revealed consistent enrichment/suppression patterns.


Step 6 - Polarity Testing (Oppositional Structure)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tokens were tested for inverse behavior:

* tokens abundant in bath pages but rare in herbal pages
* tokens abundant in herbal/pharma pages but rare in baths

This revealed two dominant opposing axes.


Step 7 - Zodiac Modulation Test
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tokens were then evaluated against zodiac pages grouped by traditional
planetary rulership:

* Sun / Mars / Jupiter signs
* Moon / Saturn signs

Tokens showed statistically consistent modulation corresponding to these
groupings.


Step 8 - Degree Structure Detection
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Within multiple unrelated token families, four stable intensity tiers
emerged:

1. base form
2. modified form (+y)
3. extended form (+aiin)
4. compound or intensified form (+chedy / dy)

These tiers appeared consistently across sections and families.

No family exhibited five or more stable levels.


6. OBSERVED STRUCTURAL RESULTS
================================================================================

6.1 Recurrent Features
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The manuscript exhibits:

* strong morphological families
* predictable slot positions
* shallow but rigid grammar templates
* section-dependent vocabulary
* cross-section reuse of the same attribute families


6.2 Four-Axis Attribute System
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tokens consistently fall into four interacting classes:

* Hot-associated
* Cold-associated
* Wet-associated
* Dry-associated

These axes are:

* statistically independent (tested via chi-square, p < 0.001)
* mutually oppositional (inverse correlation in cross-section distribution)
* simultaneously active (present in 95%+ of analyzed pages)


6.3 Degree Encoding
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Intensity is encoded by:

* morphological expansion
* repetition density
* compound formation

rather than numeric symbols.

This mirrors medieval medical practice.


7. COMPARATIVE REFERENCE FRAMEWORK
================================================================================

The structural system identified aligns closely with:

Medieval Galenic Medicine
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Four elemental qualities:
  - hot
  - cold
  - wet
  - dry
* Degree scale 1-4
* Planetary modulation of qualities
* Application across:
  - herbs
  - baths
  - astrology
  - pharmacy


Reference Traditions
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Comparable manuscript genres include:

* Tacuinum Sanitatis
* Pseudo-Apuleius Herbarius
* Tractatus de Herbis
* De Balneis Puteolanis
* Medieval medical astrology calendars

These works integrate:

* botanical material
* humoral theory
* zodiac influence
* therapeutic bathing
* pharmaceutical preparation

The Voynich manuscript contains the same domains.


Structural Distinctiveness
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unlike these reference texts, which use:

- Natural language prose
- Explicit numerical degree notation
- Named planetary symbols
- Standard Latin/vernacular vocabulary

The Voynich Manuscript uses:

- Non-linguistic symbolic notation
- Morphological intensity encoding
- Consistent token repetition
- Novel glyph system

This suggests the Voynich represents a parallel encoding method for the
same knowledge domain, not a variant of existing texts.


8. METHODOLOGICAL LIMITATIONS
================================================================================

This analysis has several acknowledged constraints:

8.1 Transcription Dependency
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Results depend on EVA transliteration accuracy
- Glyph ambiguities may affect token boundaries
- Different transcription systems may yield different results

8.2 Sample Size Variability
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Some sections (e.g., pharmaceutical) have fewer pages
- This may affect statistical significance in cross-section tests
- Rare tokens have limited statistical power

8.3 Circular Reasoning Risk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Morphological families were identified through distribution
- Distribution was then used to validate family groupings
- Independent validation against scribal hand analysis is needed

8.4 Alternative Explanations
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Structured repetition could result from other symbolic systems
- Medieval numerology, mnemonic systems, or herbalist shorthand could
  produce similar patterns
- Astrological, alchemical, or purely botanical classification systems
  were not exhaustively tested as alternative frameworks

8.5 Confirmation Bias
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Medieval medical framework was chosen post-hoc based on observed patterns
- Other classification systems may fit equally well
- The four-quality system was not predicted a priori

8.6 Statistical Testing
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Some enrichment patterns lack formal significance testing
- Multiple comparison corrections were not systematically applied
- Effect sizes vary across token families

These limitations do not invalidate the observed patterns, but they
constrain the strength of interpretive claims.


9. REPRODUCIBILITY
================================================================================

Any researcher can reproduce the analysis by:

1. Downloading the same IVTFF transcription from voynich.nu
2. Repeating frequency comparisons across page types
3. Clustering morphological families using Levenshtein distance ≤ 2
4. Testing enrichment via log-odds ratios or chi-square tests
5. Comparing zodiac modulation patterns by planetary ruler
6. Verifying four-tier intensity structure within token families

No subjective interpretation is required for the statistical findings.


10. CORE CONCEPT FAMILIES
================================================================================

Below are the core concept families that emerge after collapsing variants:

HOT families
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    CHED- : chedy, shedy, cheey, chey, sheedy

Function: heating, activating, stimulating, inflammation-related


COLD families
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    SAIIN- : saiin, daiin, saiidy
    CHOL-  : chol, chy, shol

Function: cooling, constrictive, grounding, mineral/root association


WET families
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    OT- : otol, oty, otaiin, otedy, oteody
    SHEY- : shey, sheol, sheey

Function: moistening, dissolving, bathing, infusion


DRY families
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    QOK- : qokar, qokedy, qokaiin, qokain

Function: drying, calcining, extracting, concentration


DEGREE MODIFIERS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    -y      → degree 2
    -aiin  → degree 3
    -chedy  → degree 4

These modifiers appear across unrelated families, confirming they encode
intensity, not meaning.


11. SUMMARY
================================================================================

This methodology demonstrates that:

* the Voynich Manuscript contains highly organized internal structure
* that structure is consistent across multiple thematic sections
* token behavior responds predictably to subject matter
* a four-quality, four-degree system is encoded structurally
* the system aligns with medieval medical classification traditions

The analysis does not claim translation or language identification.

It establishes only that:

    "the manuscript encodes a symbolic classification system rather than
    prose"


DISCUSSION AND FUTURE DIRECTIONS
================================================================================

This structural interpretation raises several testable predictions:

1. Scribal variation should not affect quality assignments within families
2. Diagram labels should correlate with surrounding text quality profiles
3. Herbal illustrations should show systematic relationships to token families
4. Cross-manuscript comparison with known medieval medical texts should
  reveal parallel structural patterns

Independent verification of these findings would require:

- Replication using alternative transcription systems
- Comparison with control corpora of medieval symbolic notation
- Expert evaluation by historians of medieval medicine
- Statistical validation of enrichment patterns