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  Q2f14v Secret Writings
Posted by: BessAgritianin - 23-02-2025, 08:50 AM - Forum: Marginalia - Replies (45)

Who can read what is the secret writing in the letter "P" of Q2f14v ?
(copy by courtesy of Jason Davies -"Voyage the Voynich" web page)
I have some readings, but would Like to check if I am right. In other words I am in  search of confirmation before I am being rejected (as usually happens).
BR: Vessy



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  Words get more unusual as they get longer (from 2 characters)
Posted by: Addsamuels - 22-02-2025, 06:33 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (5)

Jacquard Similarity
===For 1-grams
Average 1-gram similarity among least common words: 0.25570049296453057
Average 1-gram similarity among most common words: 0.21682838534999466
===For 2-grams
Average 2-gram similarity among least common words: 0.06423834336923202
Average 2-gram similarity among most common words: 0.06670467758507431
===For 3-grams
Average 3-gram similarity among least common words: 0.016802481467017006
Average 3-gram similarity among most common words: 0.02217942907311669
===For 4-grams
Average 4-gram similarity among least common words: 0.004504037054205818
Average 4-gram similarity among most common words: 0.007278612262000938
===For 5-grams
Average 5-gram similarity among least common words: 0.000987486273694194
Average 5-gram similarity among most common words: 0.0019374143958861578
===For 6-grams
Average 6-gram similarity among least common words: 0.0002422555676235787
Average 6-gram similarity among most common words: 0.0003965759779713268

Levenshtein Similarity
Length 2:
  Overall average Levenshtein distance: 1.8191
  Least common words: (freq = 2) -> Avg distance: 1.8333
  Top 40 most common words: -> Avg distance: 1.8115
  Top 10 most common words:  -> Avg distance: 1.7778

Length 3:
  Overall average Levenshtein distance: 2.6262
  Least common words: (freq = 2) -> Avg distance: 2.6473
  Top 40 most common words: -> Avg distance: 2.4744
  Top 10 most common words:  -> Avg distance: 2.4667

Length 4:
  Overall average Levenshtein distance: 3.4458
  Least common words: (freq = 2) -> Avg distance: 3.5212
  Top 40 most common words: -> Avg distance: 3.2308
  Top 10 most common words:  -> Avg distance: 3.1556

Length 5:
  Overall average Levenshtein distance: 4.1917
  Least common words: (freq = 2) -> Avg distance: 4.2958
  Top 40 most common words: -> Avg distance: 3.8141
  Top 10 most common words:  -> Avg distance: 3.8667

Length 6:
  Overall average Levenshtein distance: 4.8464
  Least common words: (freq = 2) -> Avg distance: 4.9734
  Top 40 most common words: -> Avg distance: 4.3154
  Top 10 most common words:  -> Avg distance: 3.9778

Length 7:
  Overall average Levenshtein distance: 5.4544
  Least common words: (freq = 2) -> Avg distance: 5.6087
  Top 40 most common words: -> Avg distance: 4.7000
  Top 10 most common words:  -> Avg distance: 4.5333

Length 8:
  Overall average Levenshtein distance: 5.9280
  Least common words: (freq = 2) -> Avg distance: 6.1097
  Top 40 most common words: -> Avg distance: 5.3397
  Top 10 most common words:  -> Avg distance: 5.1333


N.B: Ignored hapax legomena

Note this is consistent with natural languages but I believe it is more common in the Voynich

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  Mansions of the Moon/f69v
Posted by: davidma - 21-02-2025, 05:30 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (8)

Hi all, 

I was reading an interesting thread (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) on cribs and ReneZ mentioned You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as one of the clearest ones for the VM. I thought it would be interesting to have a look at the supposed lunar mansions names and if/when they occur throughout the VM. I used Voynichese for all of the analysis and checked every single occurrence individually using the VM Voyager. Some of the labels differ from the EVA vord given on Voynichese. This is my personal interpretation of these vords so I am absolutely not certain it is right and in fact would be happy to get the rest of the forum's opinions on the few (re)interpretations of certain EVA vords. 

I will give below the EVA names for the labels. I started with the "low" station okeyd (which funnily enough is given as "okey d" on Voynichese) and moved around clockwise. 

Mansions:

  • okeyd (Voynichese has it as okey d however my personal opinion is that the d is very close to the preceding y, making it likely to be a single vord). OCCURS 1
  • okead (Voynichese has it as okeod, which other have pointed out would have it appear 3 times on this single folio. However, the o looks quite clearly like an a and very different from the initial o). OCCURS 1
  • okodchy OCCURS 1
  • okeody OCCURS 37 of which 2 in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (more detail on this further down)
  • okcheys OCCURS 1
  • oar alys OCCURS 16 and 2 (more detail on this further down)
  • okeey sar (Voynichese has the first vord as okchy but there is a lack of the typical connector between c and h very clearly there in the rest of the folio, so I am inclined to see the first vord as okeey)
  • okeo dy OCCURS 37 (this is a repetition, further analysis down)
  • ochoyk OCCURS 1
  • ykeey OCCURS 58
  • ytary OCCURS 1
  • oeesy (Voynichese has it as oeesa but the last letter is clearly  a y with the distinctive tail) OCCURS 1
  • ytody OCCURS 9
  • okody OCCURS 16
  • otody OCCURS 14
  • okeal (Voynichese has it as okeol but the o looks more like an a, even has the little tail typical of a) OCCURS 12
  • okeod//lkeod (Voynichese has it as okeod which already appears once on the page if we assume my correction above, however the first letter looks like an l to me with really faded legs. This is the change I am the least certain about so would welcome comments) ASSUMING Lkeod, OCCURS 1
  • oteeys OCCURS 2
  • oteol OCCURS 42
  • ykeydy OCCURS 1
  • okeod (occurs either 6 or 4 times depending on above corrections, either 3 times or just once on f69v) OCCURS 4
  • saral OCCURS 6
  • saiir OCCURS 6
  • okolar OCCURS 2
  • ykeody OCCURS 16
  • sarydy OCCURS 1
  • otchy OCCURS 48
  • okeeydy (Voynichese has it as okchy dy but it looks a lot like okeey sar further along. Could be potentially 2 vords?) OCCURS 1

Once I was happy with my transliteration of the labels, I went and checked every occurrence, starting with the ones that appeared twice and going up. I did not check ykeey, otchy, oteol, and okeody since they appeared in excess of 30 times and it would take me a long time to go through every single occurrence and assess it qualitatively, though I might do so another time, or maybe someone else could help Smile

Below is the qualitative analysis of the occurrences. I wanted to also check if there was a pattern in scribes using the vords on f69v, but not had the time to do that yet.
I had two assumptions: 1- vords should not appear twice on the labels in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. UNLESS we're dealing with some sort of cipher/abbreviation system where two different Mansions can be written the same way. This does not seem to be the case. 2- we should see the Mansions names potentially pop up more in the astrological sections, especially the Zodiacs, since they are dependent on the Moon's position in the sky.
  • okolar: occurs 1 outside of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (the MAY Zodiac) underneath a figure with a star. It is on a different position than on f69v. 
  • oteeys: occurs 1 outside of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in f68v2 (star map with 8 sections) in the outer ring of text.
  • saiir: occurs 4 outside of f69v, in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. it is saiis rather than saiir so I have excluded it, in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (botanical), in f68v3 (astrological, on one of the "streams" moving towards the centre), f101v2 (pharmaceutical) and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (stars/recipes)
  • saral: occurs 5 outside of f69v, in f67r2 (the 12 zodiac signs?), in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (balneological), You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (pharmaceutical)
  • ytody: occurs 8 outside of f69v, in f6v, f37r, f51v, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (botanical), in f67r2 (the 12 zodiacs signs? it is 8 spaces distant from saral, as on f69v!), twice on f86v5 and once on f86v6 (Rose)
  • okeal: occurs 11 outside, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and twice on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (botanical), on f70v1 although it reas as okealar to me rather than okeal so I have excluded it, once on f72r2 (the GEMINI zodiac) next to a star figure, and in f103r, twice on f108v, once on f111r, on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and on 112r (recipes)
  • otody: occurs 13 outside, f16r, f29v, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (botanical), f70r1 (within inner circle, similar position as on f69v), f70v2 (PISCES zodiac) next to a figure, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (SAGGITTARIUS zodiac) in circle of vords, f85r2 (in rose inner ring), f94r, f94v, f95v1 (pharmaceutical) and f104r, 112r and 114v (stars/recipes)
  • okeey sar, as seen above this looks like 2 vords: I checked every occurrence of sar to see if it was preceded by okeey and it happnes 1 outside of f69v, in f67r1, another stars/moon chart, in a similar position as on f69v)
  • oar alys, as seen above 2 vords: no occurrence one after the other, although oar is followed by al in 2 cases (although this is probably has nothing to do with the Mansion of the Moon in question)
  • okeod: as seen above, occurs 6 times according to Voynichese and 3 times on f69v! Although I am fairly certain one is actually okead, the other 2 are extremely similar. As discussed above, I have interpreted one as lkeod and the other as okeod since the starting o in the former looks a lot like a faded l glyph. Assuming it is lkeod and okeod, we have 3 occurrences outisde of f69v: one on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in the SAGGITTARIUS zodiac next to a star figure and one on f101v1, although I could not find it on Voynichese, so potentially only one match on a Zodiac chart. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. has it too but it is clearly okeodsho rather than okeod. 
  • ykeody has 15 occurrences, f14r, f43r, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (botanical), f67r2 (12 Zodiac signs? in red ink outside circle), f68r2 and f68v2 in paragraphs (astrology), once in f70r1 in the outer circle of vords, once in the APRIL zodiac on f70v1 in the outer circle of vords, and 2 on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. the SAGGITTARIUS Zodiac, 1 in the outside circle and 1 next to a star figure, then once on f89r2, f89v2, f90r1, f102r2, and interestingly on f102v1 as a label? (pharmaceutical)
  • okody occurs 15 times, in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (botanical), You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. twice (in same section of drawing as well) and 2 in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (one is the label, the other is on the outer circle although the k is very weirdly written), 1 on f70v2 (PISCES zodiac) next to a star figure, 2 in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in the outer and inner circles, once on f95v2, f101v2 (looks like it could be united with another particle but unsure), f102r2, f102v1 has been excluded since it is more like otady, and f102v2 (unsure about this one too, looks like okydy or okady) (pharmaceutical) and 1 in f112 and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (recipes)
  • okeody, which occurs 37 times, but more interestingly twice on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. labels: the first okeody is undebatable, however the second has a lot of distance between okeo and dy, and okeo could also be okoo. There is another okoo written by the same hand on f68r2 and it looks nothing like this one, so I am inclined to think this is oke, which would be problematic since it goes against our assumptions about non-repetition on the labels, unless the space is significant. I looked for okeo followed by dy in the rest of the VM and it doesn't occur apart from the label.

I am unsure what to do next but wanted to share with everyone, I definitely think it is interesting how some labels only appear again on specific Zodiac signs next to stars, and generally there seems to be a lot of affinity between these labels and the astrological section. It is also curious how saral and ytody both appear on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as labels and on f67r2 (the 12 zodiac signs?) and on both folios are separated by exactly 8 spaces. 

I will try and see the scribe's distribution for the labels and if I have time analyse the 4 labels I haven't done yet because of the quantity of vords to check. I really doubt the VM is a one to one cipher (if it even is a cipher) but it would be interesting to compare the labels with the 28 Mansions' names or their main Stars, as well as using the labels present in the zodiacs to restrict the search to the Mansions pertinent to that specific sign.

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  History of the World scroll, St. Gallen, Kantonsbibliothek, VadSlg Ms. 1000
Posted by: Koen G - 21-02-2025, 02:33 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (7)

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a scroll depicting the history of the world (mostly the Biblical history and that of the Church) up to the 14th century. It was made in the second half of the 14th century by the Italian Franciscan friar Johannes de Utino (Giovanni da Udine).

The scroll is a beautifully intricate work worth viewing even without Voynich considerations. I strongly recommend not using the website's viewer, but rather clicking the blue "DOWNLOAD" button underneath.

It was the use of patterns that drew my attention though. They kind of border everything that has a "holy" or important aura with these parallel lines. In the case of the top image, there are crosses as well (tree of life? And Adam & Eve.)

   

You can go down the scroll and see where else they use this pattern. The sun and moon get it (rays of light) but also important cities of the Holy Land, Rome... The name of Jesus of course.

And then there's this... It's got all these things relentlessly flowing into one another, all leading to the world's inevitable conclusion. Usually it's with names, but there are some images as well. Here is the Menorah connecting to the Temple.

   

It's all a bit too different to draw any strong conclusions. I certainly don't want to say that the VM makers had access to this scroll. But perhaps something similar?

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  Warning the number 5
Posted by: Mark Knowles - 19-02-2025, 12:09 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (9)

I am in Milan now and researching, but I want to mention a recurrent mistake that I have seen prior to coming to Milan and which I continue to see in Milan.

The number 5 is often misread as the number 4.

I noted that this has often resulted in the incorrect dating of quite a few documents.

So a document dated to 1450 might be mistakenly dated to 1440. Or a document dated to 1540 might be mistakenly dated to 1440.

In the 15th century the arabic numeral 5 was not written the way it is today. It was written as though rotated 90 degrees anticlockwise. This is often misread as the numeral 4 by modern people unfamiliar with how the numeral was represented.

Misdating documents can be very problematic, so this is why I wanted to issue this warning.

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  Chart of len(word)>4 and count(word)>3
Posted by: Addsamuels - 18-02-2025, 12:50 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (5)

=== Prefix/Suffix Tree ===
[s:r] (6)
aiiin (36) (3)
  daiiin (19) (1)
    odaiiin (5)
  odaiiin (5)
  okaiiin (7)
aiin (316) (66)
  alaiin (7) (1)
    otalaiin (5)
  ar,aiin (9)
  araiin (8)
  chaiin (42) (1)
    dchaiin (5)
  chdaiin (17)
  chedaiin (36)
  cheedaiin (5)
  chekaiin (10)
  cheodaiin (13)
  chkaiin (17)
  choaiin (8)
  chodaiin (44) (1)
    pchodaiin (5)
  chokaiin (16)
  chol,daiin (5)
  cholkaiin (5)
  chotaiin (9)
  cphaiin (6)
  cthaiin (12)
  daiin (784) (19)
    chdaiin (17)
    chedaiin (36)
    cheedaiin (5)
    cheodaiin (13)
    chodaiin (44) (1)
      pchodaiin (5)
    chol,daiin (5)
    odaiin (59) (9)
      cheodaiin (13)
      chodaiin (44) (1)
        pchodaiin (5)
      oteodaiin (6)
      otodaiin (5)
      pchodaiin (5)
      qodaiin (43)
      sheodaiin (5)
      shodaiin (23)
      todaiin (9) (1)
        otodaiin (5)
    oldaiin (10)
    otedaiin (5)
    oteodaiin (6)
    otodaiin (5)
    pchodaiin (5)
    qodaiin (43)
    shdaiin (5)
    shedaiin (14)
    sheodaiin (5)
    shodaiin (23)
    todaiin (9) (1)
      otodaiin (5)
    ydaiin (18)
  dchaiin (5)
  kaiin (42) (11)
    chekaiin (10)
    chkaiin (17)
    chokaiin (16)
    cholkaiin (5)
    lkaiin (42) (2)
      cholkaiin (5)
      olkaiin (30) (1)
        cholkaiin (5)
    okaiin (209) (2)
      chokaiin (16)
      qokaiin (263)
    ol,kaiin (6)
    olkaiin (30) (1)
      cholkaiin (5)
    qokaiin (263)
    shkaiin (5)
    ykaiin (43)
  laiin (10) (4)
    alaiin (7) (1)
      otalaiin (5)
    olaiin (48) (1)
      polaiin (8)
    otalaiin (5)
    polaiin (8)
  lkaiin (42) (2)
    cholkaiin (5)
    olkaiin (30) (1)
      cholkaiin (5)
  oaiin (23) (2)
    choaiin (8)
    qoaiin (22)
  odaiin (59) (9)
    cheodaiin (13)
    chodaiin (44) (1)
      pchodaiin (5)
    oteodaiin (6)
    otodaiin (5)
    pchodaiin (5)
    qodaiin (43)
    sheodaiin (5)
    shodaiin (23)
    todaiin (9) (1)
      otodaiin (5)
  okaiin (209) (2)
    chokaiin (16)
    qokaiin (263)
  ol,aiin (7)
  ol,kaiin (6)
  olaiin (48) (1)
    polaiin (8)
  oldaiin (10)
  olkaiin (30) (1)
    cholkaiin (5)
  opaiin (15) (1)
    qopaiin (7)
  or,aiin (26)
  oraiin (32) (1)
    soraiin (8)
  osaiin (6)
  otaiin (150) (2)
    chotaiin (9)
    qotaiin (78)
  otalaiin (5)
  otedaiin (5)
  oteodaiin (6)
  otodaiin (5)
  paiin (6) (2)
    opaiin (15) (1)
      qopaiin (7)
    qopaiin (7)
  pchodaiin (5)
  polaiin (8)
  qoaiin (22)
  qodaiin (43)
  qokaiin (263)
  qopaiin (7)
  qotaiin (78)
  r,aiin (7) (2)
    ar,aiin (9)
    or,aiin (26)
  raiin (53) (3)
    araiin (8)
    oraiin (32) (1)
      soraiin (8)
    soraiin (8)
  s,aiin (23)
  saiin (122) (1)
    osaiin (6)
  shaiin (19)
  shdaiin (5)
  sheaiin (7)
  shedaiin (14)
  sheodaiin (5)
  shkaiin (5)
  shodaiin (23)
  soraiin (8)
  taiin (34) (4)
    chotaiin (9)
    otaiin (150) (2)
      chotaiin (9)
      qotaiin (78)
    qotaiin (78)
    ytaiin (37)
  todaiin (9) (1)
    otodaiin (5)
  yaiin (5)
  ydaiin (18)
  ykaiin (43)
  ytaiin (37)
aiir (18) (2)
  daiir (17)
  okaiir (7)
alal (6) (2)
  dalal (5)
  okalal (6)
alam (6) (1)
  dalam (6)
aldy (8) (4)
  daldy (19)
  okaldy (10) (1)
    qokaldy (10)
  otaldy (8)
  qokaldy (10)
alol (7) (1)
  dalol (6)
alor (7) (1)
  dalor (7)
aral (19) (1)
  saral (5)
aram (8) (2)
  daram (9)
  otaram (5)
arar (9) (1)
  otarar (5)
arody (11)
arol (9)
cfhy (6)
chain (18)
chal (40) (1)
  lchal (5)
cham (17) (1)
  otcham (5)
chan (12)
char (66) (2)
  chary (5)
  otchar (5)
chckhedy (11)
chdal (17)
chdam (10)
chdar (19)
chdor (9)
chdy (132) (18)
  dalchdy (5)
  dchdy (9)
  kchdy (17) (4)
    lkchdy (5)
    okchdy (25) (1)
      qokchdy (51)
    qokchdy (51)
    ykchdy (9)
  lchdy (18) (2)
    dalchdy (5)
    olchdy (8)
  lkchdy (5)
  ofchdy (5)
  okchdy (25) (1)
    qokchdy (51)
  olchdy (8)
  opchdy (18) (1)
    qopchdy (16)
  otchdy (33) (1)
    qotchdy (22)
  otechdy (5)
  pchdy (8) (2)
    opchdy (18) (1)
      qopchdy (16)
    qopchdy (16)
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cheal (27)
cheam (5)
chear (43)
ched (11) (8)
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cheedar (5)
cheedy (56) (2)
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cheeey (8)
cheeky (22)
cheeo (14) (5)
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chees (32)
cheey (151) (9)
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chek (6) (9)
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cheo (37) (16)
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chepy (6)
ches (30)
chety (22)
chey (292) (22)
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chkal (11)
chky (16)
chod (7) (6)
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chok (5) (9)
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chol (331) (17)
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chom (12)
chor (193) (14)
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chos (33)
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choy (9)
chtal (5)
chtol (5)
chty (12)
chyky (5)
ckheey (10)
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ckheol (5)
ckhey (26) (6)
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ckhol (20) (1)
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ckhor (8)
ckhy (31) (9)
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cphedy (7)
cphey (9)
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cthar (13)
cthdy (7) (1)
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ctho (8) (4)
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cthy (98) (9)
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daim (10)
dain (194) (9)
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dalar (6)
dals (8)
daly (27)
dary (22)
dcho (5) (2)
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dchy (26)
deey (6)
dody (6)
doly (5)
dsho (8) (1)
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dshy (8)
eeedy (5) (2)
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eees (7) (1)
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kain (24) (10)
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kair (9) (3)
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kary (5) (1)
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kchy (21) (8)
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kedy (28) (8)
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keedy (34) (6)
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keeey (7) (5)
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keeody (7) (4)
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keeol (6) (3)
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keey (35) (11)
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keody (17) (3)
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keol (17) (4)
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keor (6) (3)
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kody (5) (2)
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ksho (6)
kshy (5) (2)
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lchy (8) (1)
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lkam (5) (1)
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loly (6)
oain (10) (1)
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ockhedy (7)
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odam (6)
odar (20) (5)
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ofar (6)
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oiin (28) (6)
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okam (29) (1)
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okan (7) (1)
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okar (125) (3)
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okchd (6) (2)
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okcho (5) (4)
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okechy (5) (1)
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okedal (8)
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okeeo (11) (5)
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okor (31) (2)
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okos (5)
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olal (5)
olar (13)
oldam (5)
oldar (7)
oldy (25) (6)
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oral (9)
oram (9)
orar (7)
orol (11)
oror (7)
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otedar (12)
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otees (11)
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qody (15)
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qoko (5) (5)
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rary (5)
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shar (28)
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shear (22)
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shee (10) (9)
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  Celestial faces
Posted by: R. Sale - 17-02-2025, 11:20 PM - Forum: Imagery - Replies (50)

This Post #31 reopens an interesting topic.

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Evidence so far reveals an early, Germanic use of facial features attributed to the sun. The comparison with the VMs is more problematic. While the VMs contains a number of different examples, the particular specimen chosen in the post above from f68v1 is by far the greatest outlier of the group. First, as was noted, this example is more than just a face. More than just eyes, nose and mouth. This is a head. 

Examples of where a head as the sun can be found in some representations of Apollo from the Book of the Queen.

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So, there are several of these examples in the VMs where there are just celestial faces, and there are some others that look more like heads and have hair, and this one is unique because it has a headband of sorts, best called<perhaps> a fillet.

As a representation contemporary to the VMs, a good fillet is hard to find. And it seems to have a feminine preference. However, as a reference to Classical Greece, and to Helios or Apollo, it doesn't seem that out of place.

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  TF-IDF values of categories
Posted by: Addsamuels - 17-02-2025, 01:34 AM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (9)

Most Common Words by Category (Top 20):
Text (T): [('shedy', 36), ('chedy', 34), ('or', 31), ('daiin', 27), ('dar', 26), ('aiin', 26), ('qokar', 24), ('shey', 23), ('ar', 22), ('chey', 22), ('ol', 21), ('qokaiin', 20), ('dain', 17), ('chol', 15), ('chdy', 14), ('okar', 14), ('qokal', 13), ('qokeey', 13), ('otar', 13), ('otal', 13)]
Herbal (H): [('daiin', 432), ('chol', 196), ('chor', 141), ('s', 119), ('dar', 106), ('shol', 105), ('or', 102), ('dy', 94), ('chy', 89), ('cthy', 88), ('dain', 82), ('sho', 78), ('aiin', 71), ('chey', 67), ('ol', 65), ('shor', 61), ('okaiin', 57), ('chedy', 56), ('chdy', 55), ('shy', 54)]
Cosmo ©: [('ol', 31), ('ar', 26), ('daiin', 25), ('or', 25), ('dar', 22), ('aiin', 19), ('o', 18), ('y', 16), ('dal', 16), ('r', 15), ('oteey', 15), ('otedy', 14), ('al', 13), ('l', 12), ('chedy', 12), ('qokal', 12), ('okar', 11), ('otody', 11), ('shedy', 11), ('d', 10)]
Stars/Recipes (S): [('chedy', 179), ('qokeey', 162), ('qokeedy', 132), ('aiin', 129), ('ar', 125), ('qokaiin', 123), ('daiin', 119), ('shedy', 108), ('chey', 107), ('qokain', 102), ('okaiin', 96), ('okeey', 93), ('al', 89), ('otaiin', 79), ('ol', 78), ('okain', 70), ('shey', 67), ('cheey', 65), ('qokedy', 60), ('oteey', 57)]
Astro (A): [('s', 13), ('aiin', 12), ('ar', 11), ('daiin', 11), ('dair', 9), ('dar', 9), ('dy', 8), ('oteey', 7), ('shey', 6), ('okeey', 6), ('okol', 6), ('dal', 5), ('chol', 5), ('okey', 5), ('shes', 5), ('sar', 4), ('air', 4), ('chy', 4), ('cho', 4), ('or', 4)]
Zodiac (Z): [('oteey', 20), ('al', 17), ('aiin', 15), ('oteody', 15), ('otaiin', 13), ('ar', 12), ('otey', 11), ('oteos', 11), ('otar', 10), ('daiin', 8), ('okeey', 8), ('oty', 7), ('otal', 7), ('dar', 6), ('otaly', 6), ('am', 6), ('oteedy', 6), ('okal', 6), ('okaly', 6), ('o', 5)]
Bio/Balneo (B): [('shedy', 186), ('chedy', 159), ('qokain', 157), ('qokedy', 154), ('ol', 152), ('qokeedy', 146), ('qokal', 98), ('qokaiin', 81), ('qol', 78), ('qokeey', 77), ('daiin', 75), ('shey', 72), ('chey', 64), ('qoky', 53), ('lchedy', 50), ('dal', 50), ('dar', 49), ('otedy', 48), ('qotedy', 46), ('qokar', 43)]
Pharma (P): [('daiin', 87), ('chol', 37), ('cheol', 33), ('okeol', 30), ('ol', 28), ('or', 27), ('qokeol', 24), ('chor', 23), ('aiin', 22), ('qokol', 22), ('okeey', 22), ('dal', 21), ('qokeey', 21), ('s', 21), ('okol', 20), ('cheor', 20), ('dar', 19), ('chey', 19), ('sheol', 18), ('shey', 18)]

TF-IDF Top Words by Category (Top 20):
Text (T): ['shedy', 'ol', 'or', 'chedy', 'aiin', 'ar', 'dar', 'daiin', 'chey', 'qokar', 'shey', 'qokaiin', 'chol', 'dal', 'dain', 'chdy', 'al', 'ykaiin', 'qokal', 'okar']
Herbal (H): ['daiin', 'chol', 'chor', 'dy', 'or', 'shol', 'dar', 'aiin', 'chy', 'cthy', 'dain', 'ol', 'sho', 'ar', 'shor', 'chey', 'qotchy', 'cho', 'chaiin', 'cthor']
Cosmo ©: ['ar', 'ol', 'or', 'aiin', 'dar', 'daiin', 'dy', 'al', 'ch', 'dal', 'otedy', 'qokal', 'otody', 'oteey', 'chol', 'okal', 'okody', 'otodar', '171', '170']
Stars/Recipes (S): ['aiin', 'chedy', 'qokeedy', 'ar', 'qokeey', 'qokaiin', 'al', 'shedy', 'daiin', 'qokain', 'chey', 'ol', 'okaiin', 'okeey', 'otaiin', 'shey', 'lchedy', 'okain', 'cheey', 'or']
Astro (A): ['ar', 'aiin', 'daiin', 'dar', 'dy', 'dair', 'okeo', 'oteey', 'shey', 'chol', 'dal', 'okeey', 'or', 'okol', 'cho', 'shes', 'chocfhy', 'chy', 'okey', 'chos']
Zodiac (Z): ['aiin', 'ar', 'al', 'oteey', 'oteody', 'oteos', 'otar', 'otaiin', 'otey', 'daiin', 'ch', 'otaly', 'dy', 'okaly', 'am', 'otal', 'oteeos', 'oteotey', 'okeey', 'air']
Bio/Balneo (B): ['shedy', 'ol', 'qokeedy', 'qokedy', 'qokain', 'chedy', 'qol', 'qokal', 'qokaiin', 'shey', 'daiin', 'lchedy', 'qokeey', 'qoky', 'chey', 'or', 'qotedy', 'dal', 'otedy', 'dar']
Pharma (P): ['daiin', 'ol', 'chol', 'cheol', 'or', 'aiin', 'okeol', 'chor', 'qokeol', 'qokol', 'dal', 'dar', 'chey', 'okeey', 'cheody', 'okol', 'qokeey', 'cheor', 'dol', 'qokeody']


Please give your comments Smile, I've being using ai a lot so I wouldn't necessarily trust this result too much.

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Brick Voynich location and writer investigation
Posted by: psychobilly - 16-02-2025, 07:51 PM - Forum: Voynich Talk - Replies (2)

Hello, for some time I have been interested in the Voynich because of its symbolic value, which made me think of various theories, for me the most plausible (I admit controversy) is the one that is a book that talks about "energy" because according to me this idea would fit with the content, I assumed this when I thought that the author had no intentions of stacking papers and putting a cliche on it, nor do I think that he talks about a specific subject like a herbarium or something like that but rather a kind of "gospel", I think that someone was trying to create something of a universal instance, a kind of role in the world, so it is in theory a religious book, I also realized that this book mixes Christian ideas with other obviously heretical ones but it has a pre-Renaissance style so the book is deeply spiritual. There are parts of the book that fit with medieval representation of Venus, eg: Scene With Venus From the Fifteenth Century Lombard Manuscript De Sphaera, if we take this and energy into account we could associate muses and lares. Lares seem to be very typical in astrological charts. And the muses appear in a photograph, despite my high speculation I grouped all these thoughts and notes in a kind of blog, clearly this content is full of nonsense and gibberish but I think they serve as a good starting point for anyone to address the line I mentioned. The blog in question is You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , but the point of this comment in the forum is that I came to the conclusion that the book was written or is related to the kingdom of Castile in Spain in those years, in fact I take for granted that the Voynichese language is based on Latin, and this Voynichese language is surely closer to Spanish than any other ... when I made this appreciation and investigated along that line I came to a particular place where I in my controversy have identified with the city of Ávila Spain .. in fact I am convinced that the place described in the book is nothing more than this city, with its wall and etc. but to make this even stranger I think the author could be "Áviles", why do I say this? I came to this conclusion by other means but the tests that gave me more certainties were the following, the text has a writing similar to these images:

[Image: 961px-padrc3b3n-hidalgos-castropol-1580-89-jpg.webp]

but the most intriguing is the following:

"Perpetual Law of Castilla":

[Image: Ley_perpetua_de_castilla.jpg]

Now draw your own conclusions. If this is correct, then what the girl is holding and what is written below could be the word "clover" (trébol):

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Saludos

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  Peculiar benches
Posted by: Bluetoes101 - 14-02-2025, 11:40 PM - Forum: Analysis of the text - Replies (6)

I have some questions for those amongst the community who have studied the text. 
Or those that maybe are just aware of past studies which touched on these topics.

What are your thoughts on benched gallows/benches which end with;

  1. the gallows glyph (missing "h")?
  2. "o". "h" is looped to complete an "o" shape?
  3. "i". Do you think "cXi" is a valid bench formation, or even "ci" rather than "ch" or "ih"?

I am assuming "ih" "iXh" is accepted. It seems clear to me, but maybe others do not think so? 
(I am using X to represent p,f,t,k)

The reason I ask is that I am wondering what I should include in a writing system proposal. 

For example. 
Is point 2 too niche to include and better considered a mistake, or an oddity outside a normal building blocks. If not, is it a normal "o" joined on, or a new thing to considered all together with the whole, such as a variation of "h". Maybe it is somehow linked to "qo"? I do not know, just thoughts. 

I know there are no sure answers, but a compelling theory would be interesting to hear.

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