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+--- Thread: Voynich through Phonetic Irish (/thread-5032.html)
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish - cabeswater - 12-11-2025
(11-11-2025, 05:47 PM)Doireannjane wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(11-11-2025, 04:58 PM)cabeswater wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'm happy to check for repeatability if you want me to but I don't think you're going to like what I have to say. I believe I've reached out to you via email before and then realised this was a much bigger bear to poke than I was bothered poking. I probably sound like the meanest person but in fact I would be over the moon if the Voynich was in Irish. I've no personal issues with you or your work but if you want a native speaker's input you should probably heed what the native speaker is telling you. I won't be watching any videos; text or images only since that's how papers are written, and if you can't get your point across in written form then your point is too obscure to work.
Your method of saying the sounds you think you see and letting a dictation service find words that match is the very definition of cherry picking.
How would you translate f108v.40 EVA "Sheeal qokeedy qokeedy qokeedy"?
Can you explain why such a heavy proportion of the manuscript's text includes words that start with "fo-" [EVA qo] meaning under- (according to you), and "ath-" [EVA o] meaing re- (also according to you)? You said previously in the thread that you just ignore some of the vord initial EVA o, but you include it in the vord when it suits you. I hope I don't have to explain why just throwing away the most heavily featured feature of the text isn't great, and even worse to pick and choose when you keep it and when you disregard it.
I understand the frustration. Im at work so Im not able to respond as in depth as I’d like. I also am not a professional linguist. “4o” = in writing and in sound “fa” “fo” “feo” in modern Irish. Often in the text it is fo- the prefix meaning sub or under.
That... didn't answer any of my questions. I get that you think EVA qo means sub-. I'm asking why would the manuscript have, I don't have exact counts to hand, but such a crazy amount of the vords start with sub-? And such an amount of vords starting with re- (EVA o)? Since that's how you're translating it. Just an offhand guess but like half of the vords in the VMS start with EVA o or EVA qo. Why would half the words in the manuscript start with re- or sub-? How are you explaining this in your translations? It doesn't look like you're getting a proportionate amount of translated words starting with re- or sub-, either because you're changing what you're deciding to translate them as or you're just disregarding them altogether because they don't fit how you're deciding to translate things.
Btw I'm not frustrated at all, I'm delighted that I can finally provide something useful to a discussion here. I fear I'm coming across as terribly rude but really I'm just terribly educated on Irish, particularly on medieval Irish manuscripts. I spent my masters studying and translating them, in fact, specifically medical manuscripts, so I know well how Irish was written at the time, and it came out nothing like anything you've posted.
I feel like an example here might put into context what you're doing for others to understand. I'll paste an original and translated paragraph from one of my favourites, A Handbook of Gynaecology and Midwifery, dated 1352. The text I ended up with for this manuscript was collated from Dublin, Royal Irish Academy, MS 23 F 19; Dublin, Royal Irish Academy, MS 23 M 36; and Dublin, Trinity College Library, MS E 4. 1. (1436) 101ra–106a. I've put the line breaks and numbers in myself just now so everyone can understand what line becomes what in the translation process.
- Labrum anois do purgoid speitsialta na mban,
- oir ni teas amain gnimhaidhus isna mnaibh do tirmughadh na leannann mailiseach bis anntu,
- & ni fliuchaidhecht amain anmainnighes iad do reir datha,
- indus co fetfaidhi drochlenna d’innarbad cum na mball foirimeallach do reir nadura.
- Et da reir sin is do medugad an teasa d’ordaigh an Coimsidhtheoir neamhdha purgoid gnaith
- do glanadh na mball foirimellach & inmedonach mailli re fuil mista,
- darub comhainm asin innsgni choitcinn an blath banda,
- .i. mar na tabhraid na craind torad gan blath,
- as mar sin na tabhraid na mna torad coir gan blath.
- Et as amhlaidh tic an purgoid sin dona mnaibh
- mar tic silne dona fearaibh tre aislingthibh,
- oir tromaighthear naduir agna mnaibh & agna fearaibh
- an tan fodograid imarcraid na lennann d’innarbad & nach fedaid.
- Now we shall speak of the special purgation of women,
- for it is not heat alone that acts in women to dry up the moist humours that are in them,
- and it is not moisture alone that nourishes them according to its quality,
- so that the evil humours may be able to be driven out towards the outward parts according to nature.
- And therefore, for the increase of the heat, the heavenly Governor ordained the customary purgation
- for the cleansing of the outward and inward parts, together with the blood of menses,
- by which name it is called in the common tongue the flower of womanhood,
- i.e.: just as trees do not bear fruit without blossom,
- so too women do not give right fruit without blossom.
- And thus this purgation comes to women as seed comes to men through dreams,
- for nature becomes burdened in women and in men when it would strive
- to drive out the abundance of humours, and cannot.
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish - Doireannjane - 12-11-2025
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish - Doireannjane - 12-11-2025
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish - rikforto - 12-11-2025
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish - oshfdk - 12-11-2025
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish - Doireannjane - 12-11-2025
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish - Doireannjane - 13-11-2025
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish - oshfdk - 13-11-2025
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish - rikforto - 13-11-2025
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish - Doireannjane - 13-11-2025