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+--- Thread: On plain texts and ciphers (a thought experiment) (/thread-728.html)
RE: On plain texts and ciphers (a thought experiment) - -JKP- - 05-06-2018
Marco is correct about the much more flexible distribution of ending-characters in Latin (compared to the VMS). VMS glyphs do NOT shuffle around within words as one would expect in natural languages. But...
...it's also important to note that if you go in the other direction, VMS glyphs are crafted to follow Latin scribal conventions.
I've already written these things here, and on other threads, and on my blog, numerous times, but I'm going to repeat them again:
- In the VMS y is usually at the ends of tokens, sometimes at the beginnings of tokens, and occasionally within tokens. It is the same in Latin (where this shape is used as abbreviation for con-/com-, -us/-um).
- In the VMS y is usually written in line with the rest of the text but can also be found superscripted. Similarly, in Latin, the scribe had the choice of writing the abbreviation y in line with the text or superscripted (and some scribes did it both ways within the same document).
- In the VMS m is usually at the ends of tokens, the ends of lines, and the ends of paragraphs, and only occasionally next to itself. It is the same in Latin (where this shape is used as abbreviations for -ris/-tis/-cis and occasionally other endings).
- In the VMS there are certain glyphs (best examples are r and s) that can stand alone and these are consistent with glyph shapes that can stand alone in Latin.
- In the VMS there is the occasional example of a reverse-c shape. This is also an abbreviation in Latin, but one of the less common ones. In Latin it usually stands for con and occasionally contra. Most scribes chose to use y instead, but a few used both abbreviations within the same document.
- In the VMS a straight apostrophe (sometimes called a macron) is sometimes put above letters (or through them) to indicated that letters are missing. It's an abbreviation symbol. We see examples of the same shape, placed in the same position as one might expect in Latin. The "cap" shape (as on EVA-sh) is also used in a similar way as an abbreviation shape in Latin (and is also very common in the VMS).
These obvious and undeniable similarities to Latin scribal conventions are the reason why I've often said that VMS may possibly be contrived to look like Latin, not just in glyph-forms but also in the location of those glyph forms within and between tokens. It cannot possibly be accidental.
Whoever designed the VMS text not only knew Latin scribal conventions but chose to incorporate some of the Latin scribal positional conventions into VMS text. However, the paucity of alphabetic glyphs, the lack of variability of VMS glyphs within the tokens, and the shortness of the tokens (if one counts what is left after considering the abbreviation-shaped glyphs) are NOT characteristic of natural language.
It appears that the scribal conventions may have been added to make it LOOK like Latin while possibly being something else. Any attempt at statistically studying it must take into consideration these patterns and so far I don't see this happening. The glyphs that look like letters and the glyphs that look like scribal conventions are generally treated as "the same" but it's possible that they are meant to be understood differently.
In contrast to the way we think about alphabets today, it was part of the medieval mindset that certain shapes were "alphabetic" and certain shapes were "scribal" (which could stand for other things).
RE: On plain texts and ciphers (a thought experiment) - Koen G - 05-06-2018
RE: On plain texts and ciphers (a thought experiment) - Emma May Smith - 05-06-2018
RE: On plain texts and ciphers (a thought experiment) - -JKP- - 05-06-2018
RE: On plain texts and ciphers (a thought experiment) - Koen G - 06-06-2018
RE: On plain texts and ciphers (a thought experiment) - -JKP- - 06-06-2018
RE: On plain texts and ciphers (a thought experiment) - Antonio García Jiménez - 06-06-2018
RE: On plain texts and ciphers (a thought experiment) - davidjackson - 06-06-2018
RE: On plain texts and ciphers (a thought experiment) - MarcoP - 06-06-2018
RE: On plain texts and ciphers (a thought experiment) - -JKP- - 06-06-2018