28-02-2023, 06:49 PM
(This post was last modified: 28-02-2023, 06:59 PM by Ahmet Ardıç.)
Dear Marco,
I must say you are on the right track. Thank you.
Please, when examining different languages in terms of the type and variety of word repetitions and the frequency of their occurrence in texts, please also consider the Old Turkish inscriptions & manuscripts. Here, in my article below, I am presenting the evidence on this subject again, and in doing so, I refer to some of the articles of linguists on the same subject.
Of course, today you can artificially create word repetitions in any language while writing a new article. However, please you examine any Turkish text before the date of 1912 when the VM book was unearthed (or included all times), with together with examine the texts of the European languages in a same time period you are studying.
In Turkish texts, you will see an increase in word repetitions as you go back in time. However, the numerical diversity and structural status of these repetitions can be seen very richly in Turkish. (They can be found on almost every page in many ancient Turkish manuscripts as like as VM pages.) For example, in the past, our ancestors used to write that word twice to make the plural of a word. We have been doing this with word suffixes for a very long time.
As in the same way as VM word-repetation structure, there are double, triple, quartet and quintet word repetitions in many Old Turkish manuscript. As the number of words increases in successive repetitions, the frequency of occurrence in texts decreases. So, Turkish already has this structure. For example, double repetitions are more common than triple repetitions, etc.
Please see the table here > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The same situation is shown in the example given from a literary manuscript written in the 15th century.
Here are the one of the 15th century texts I mentioned > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
So, I have had share an explanation about word repetitions before here in this voynich-ninja platform for modern Turkish and old Turkish.
If you look there, you can see that word repetitions are used extensively in modern Turkish.
On this page > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I was took two poems as an example and showed the word repetitions in red-color in them. These 2 poems are in modern Turkish.
But there are already academic articles about word repetitions in Turkish, and I already reference them in many our own articles.
(Please see this source book: Aksan 2000 / Doğan Aksan, "En Eski Türkçenin İzlerinde")
In those articles, he already talks about the number and variety of forms, the frequency of occurrence in the texts and the repetitions from double to quintuple, and that none of them has a close analogue in any other language (except for the Korean & japan language. But Korean & Japan language also do not have the same-form as like quartet and quintuple repetitions, this point is just Old-Turkish specific.)
That is, the same word is written side by side in more than one way. No similar situation has been recorded with equal intensity in any of the Old-Indo-European languages. Likewise, similar structures, including Semitic languages and Chinese etc., are not found in any of the languages studied as candidates for VM.
But there are many recorded old-texts for it in old Turkish.
For example, these were recorded in the IRK BİTİG manuscript in same way.
You can see same situation in Kutadgu Bilig manuscript written by Yusuf Has Hâcib in the eleventh century too.
This all recorded as an example of structural overlaps for VM by us.
So, you will already see the same structure in VM when you look compairing it with the Irk-BITIG manuscript, and we have already presented this as like one of the proof in our articles sent and published to some academies.
See what the linguist Doğan Aksan wrote about it (with the Turkish original as well as the English translation I made below):
“In linguistics, reduplications, which are called hendiadyoin (hendiadyoin 'one with two, one with two mediators') with the Greek term and which have only a few examples in the whole Latin literature, have been used and used with great frequency in every period and every dialect of Turkish. These elements constitute one of the most important features of our language in terms of structure, syntax and semantics. Reduplications, which we encounter in Korean and to some extent in Japanese, are generally not as large in Indo-European languages as in Turkish. ..." Doğan Aksan (Linguist)
With the Turkish original > “Dilcilikte, Yunanca terimiyle hendiadyoin (hendiadyoin ‘iki ile, iki aracıyla bir’) adını alan ve koca Latin yazınında ancak birkaç örneği bulunan ikilemeler Türkçenin her döneminde ve her lehçesinde büyük bir sıklıkla kullanılmış ve kullanılmaktadır. Dilimizin hem yapı hem söz dizimi hem de anlam bilimi bakımından en önemli özelliklerinden birini, bu ögeler oluşturmaktadır. Türkçedekine yakın oranda Korece’de ve bir ölçüde Japoncada karşımıza çıkan ikilemeler Hint-Avrupa dillerinde genel olarak büyük bir sayıda değildir. ..." Doğan Aksan
Thanks,
A. Ardıç
Please see some academic resources about word repetition theme in Turkish:
- Kürşat Efe ve Muhammed Ali Açıkgöz. "Reduplications in Ahmet Bican Ercilasun's The Novel of Ulu Han Ata, The Lost Book of the Turk", Dede Korkut International Journal of Turkish Language and Literature Studies, 8/18, pages 167-176. /
"Ahmet Bican Ercilasun’un Türk’ün Kayıp Kitabı Ulu Han Ata Romanında İkilemeler", Dede Korkut Uluslararası Türk Dili ve Edebiyatı Araştırmaları Dergisi, 8/18, sayfa 167-176.
<You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.>
-Aksan, Doğan. "Türkçenin Zenginlikleri İncelikleri", Ankara: Bilgi Yayınevi, 2005a
-Aktan, Bilal. "The Word Repetitions in the Vocabulary of Dîvânu Lügâti't-Türk Manuscript". Selcuk University Journal of Turkic Studies, P.28, p.1-12 / “Dîvânu Lügâti’t-Türk’ün Söz Varlığında Yer Alan İkilemeler”. Selçuk Üniversitesi Türkiyat Araştırmaları Dergisi, S.28, s.1-12. / 2010
- Aksan, Doğan. "On the Traces of the Oldest Turkish. / "En Eski Türkçenin İzlerinde." İstanbul: Simurg Yayınları, 2000.
I must say you are on the right track. Thank you.
Please, when examining different languages in terms of the type and variety of word repetitions and the frequency of their occurrence in texts, please also consider the Old Turkish inscriptions & manuscripts. Here, in my article below, I am presenting the evidence on this subject again, and in doing so, I refer to some of the articles of linguists on the same subject.
Of course, today you can artificially create word repetitions in any language while writing a new article. However, please you examine any Turkish text before the date of 1912 when the VM book was unearthed (or included all times), with together with examine the texts of the European languages in a same time period you are studying.
In Turkish texts, you will see an increase in word repetitions as you go back in time. However, the numerical diversity and structural status of these repetitions can be seen very richly in Turkish. (They can be found on almost every page in many ancient Turkish manuscripts as like as VM pages.) For example, in the past, our ancestors used to write that word twice to make the plural of a word. We have been doing this with word suffixes for a very long time.
As in the same way as VM word-repetation structure, there are double, triple, quartet and quintet word repetitions in many Old Turkish manuscript. As the number of words increases in successive repetitions, the frequency of occurrence in texts decreases. So, Turkish already has this structure. For example, double repetitions are more common than triple repetitions, etc.
Please see the table here > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The same situation is shown in the example given from a literary manuscript written in the 15th century.
Here are the one of the 15th century texts I mentioned > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
So, I have had share an explanation about word repetitions before here in this voynich-ninja platform for modern Turkish and old Turkish.
If you look there, you can see that word repetitions are used extensively in modern Turkish.
On this page > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I was took two poems as an example and showed the word repetitions in red-color in them. These 2 poems are in modern Turkish.
But there are already academic articles about word repetitions in Turkish, and I already reference them in many our own articles.
(Please see this source book: Aksan 2000 / Doğan Aksan, "En Eski Türkçenin İzlerinde")
In those articles, he already talks about the number and variety of forms, the frequency of occurrence in the texts and the repetitions from double to quintuple, and that none of them has a close analogue in any other language (except for the Korean & japan language. But Korean & Japan language also do not have the same-form as like quartet and quintuple repetitions, this point is just Old-Turkish specific.)
That is, the same word is written side by side in more than one way. No similar situation has been recorded with equal intensity in any of the Old-Indo-European languages. Likewise, similar structures, including Semitic languages and Chinese etc., are not found in any of the languages studied as candidates for VM.
But there are many recorded old-texts for it in old Turkish.
For example, these were recorded in the IRK BİTİG manuscript in same way.
You can see same situation in Kutadgu Bilig manuscript written by Yusuf Has Hâcib in the eleventh century too.
This all recorded as an example of structural overlaps for VM by us.
So, you will already see the same structure in VM when you look compairing it with the Irk-BITIG manuscript, and we have already presented this as like one of the proof in our articles sent and published to some academies.
See what the linguist Doğan Aksan wrote about it (with the Turkish original as well as the English translation I made below):
“In linguistics, reduplications, which are called hendiadyoin (hendiadyoin 'one with two, one with two mediators') with the Greek term and which have only a few examples in the whole Latin literature, have been used and used with great frequency in every period and every dialect of Turkish. These elements constitute one of the most important features of our language in terms of structure, syntax and semantics. Reduplications, which we encounter in Korean and to some extent in Japanese, are generally not as large in Indo-European languages as in Turkish. ..." Doğan Aksan (Linguist)
With the Turkish original > “Dilcilikte, Yunanca terimiyle hendiadyoin (hendiadyoin ‘iki ile, iki aracıyla bir’) adını alan ve koca Latin yazınında ancak birkaç örneği bulunan ikilemeler Türkçenin her döneminde ve her lehçesinde büyük bir sıklıkla kullanılmış ve kullanılmaktadır. Dilimizin hem yapı hem söz dizimi hem de anlam bilimi bakımından en önemli özelliklerinden birini, bu ögeler oluşturmaktadır. Türkçedekine yakın oranda Korece’de ve bir ölçüde Japoncada karşımıza çıkan ikilemeler Hint-Avrupa dillerinde genel olarak büyük bir sayıda değildir. ..." Doğan Aksan
Thanks,
A. Ardıç
Please see some academic resources about word repetition theme in Turkish:
- Kürşat Efe ve Muhammed Ali Açıkgöz. "Reduplications in Ahmet Bican Ercilasun's The Novel of Ulu Han Ata, The Lost Book of the Turk", Dede Korkut International Journal of Turkish Language and Literature Studies, 8/18, pages 167-176. /
"Ahmet Bican Ercilasun’un Türk’ün Kayıp Kitabı Ulu Han Ata Romanında İkilemeler", Dede Korkut Uluslararası Türk Dili ve Edebiyatı Araştırmaları Dergisi, 8/18, sayfa 167-176.
<You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.>
-Aksan, Doğan. "Türkçenin Zenginlikleri İncelikleri", Ankara: Bilgi Yayınevi, 2005a
-Aktan, Bilal. "The Word Repetitions in the Vocabulary of Dîvânu Lügâti't-Türk Manuscript". Selcuk University Journal of Turkic Studies, P.28, p.1-12 / “Dîvânu Lügâti’t-Türk’ün Söz Varlığında Yer Alan İkilemeler”. Selçuk Üniversitesi Türkiyat Araştırmaları Dergisi, S.28, s.1-12. / 2010
- Aksan, Doğan. "On the Traces of the Oldest Turkish. / "En Eski Türkçenin İzlerinde." İstanbul: Simurg Yayınları, 2000.