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How quickly did the VMS leave the possession of those who understood it?
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(28-11-2025, 05:07 AM)Skoove wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Just for a fun discussion, I thought I would ask for peoples opinions on when the VMS left the hands of its original creator(s)?

Most likely on the Author's death.  I would guess that it the most common case for manuscripts created from scratch (as opposed from copies of existing manuscripts made for sale or for hire, like the Alchemists' Herbals or the luxury illuminated books). 

Quote:I know that some believe that those who created it didn't understand it, either because it is gibberish or because they were simply scribes for an author who was the only one who knew.

I believe the latter, but I would use "creator" for the Author, not for the Scribe.  So for me the "creator" received the VMS from the Scribe as soon as it was written, and could read it.

Quote:As far as I know, we have relatively good evidence that by about 1575 the manuscript was in the hands of those who didn't even understand what it was supposed to be, let alone be able to read it.
 

You mean Barschius?  I didn't check the dates, but seem correct.

Quote:I think that there is other physical evidence in the manuscript that prior to this, it was already in the hands of someone who didn't understand it. Namely because of the incorrect binding, incorrect painting, POSSIBLE retracing by someone who didn't get what the original glyphs were and also the marginalia?

I am still uncertain about this point, but anyway, if I understood the prevailing story correctly:
  • The current binding is from the 1800s -- done by the Jesuits after they found the book had been badly damaged by worms, mold, etc.
  • The folio numbers were written with handwriting from the 1500s to 1700s, after the vellum sheets had been scrambled and nested in the incorrect order.
  • The "font" of the marginal writings seems to be from the 1500s or later.
  • There is evidence that the painting was later than the folio numbers.
  • I see plenty of evidence that most of the text and a lot of the drawings were retraced in at least two, possibly three separate occasions.  The first was a "professional" restoration, the others less careful if not vandalistic. Presumably the first one was motivated by fading of the original writing, hence it must have occurred decades or centuries after the original scribing.

Quote:I personally think that within a generation or two the manuscript somehow left those who had originally devised it then began being passed around as a curiosity by others who had no understanding of it.

That is basically what I think too.  That is what apparently happened with Barschius->Marci->Kircher->Jesuits at Collegio Romano.   However, before that, it may have been sold, rather than just "passed around". We don't know how it got from Sinapius to Barschius, nor how Sinapius got it.

All the best, --stolfi
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RE: How quickly did the VMS leave the possession of those who understood it? - by Jorge_Stolfi - 28-11-2025, 09:12 AM

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