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The thing (80v & 82r)

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• The thing (80v & 82r)

• RE: The thing (80v & 82r)

  -JKP- > 05-08-2018, 07:26 AM

  The stringed instrument is a mandolin/lute/cittern:
  
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  But the straw-like thing is a mystery to me. No one holds a flute or a recorder like that unless they're done playing, and it's odd that it's white. Most recorders were tan or brown. I suppose if it were made of silver, it might be light, but did they have silver recorders in the Middle Ages?
  
  Here's a more natural posture when playing:
  
  
  
  
  
  I just found something similar to the odd recorder-like thing. It's light-colored and oddly-held, like an instrument with no holes (which would be a very limited instrument):
  
  

• RE: The thing (80v & 82r)

  Koen G > 05-08-2018, 09:50 AM

  A lute is a type of mandolin. A mandolin in a historical Euopean context is usually a lute.
  
  About the flute, it's also strange how her other hand is entirely obscured. The way she's holding it it reminds me of one of those instruments where you pull out or push in a thing at ths bottom to change the tune.

• RE: The thing (80v & 82r)

  Paris > 05-08-2018, 10:16 AM

  For the lady on the left, it looks like a specific flute.
  
     

• RE: The thing (80v & 82r)

  -JKP- > 05-08-2018, 02:54 PM

  (05-08-2018, 09:50 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
  
  About the flute, it's also strange how her other hand is entirely obscured. The way she's holding it it reminds me of one of those instruments where you pull out or push in a thing at ths bottom to change the tune.

  
  I was also wondering about the other hand. I don't know if they had slide recorders in the middle ages (it's possible they did) but the picture I posted with the male musicians shows him with the recorder-like thing in one hand and a bell in the other, so I wonder if it was a very simple recorder used more as a percussive instrument than for melody.

• RE: The thing (80v & 82r)

  davidjackson > 05-08-2018, 03:24 PM

  If you look closely at the image, from the way it's being held I would suggest it's the staff of a violin ;but the artist has omitted to draw the violin itself (probably because he realised there wasn't room).
  The lady in blue is holding it in her right hand, cocked at the right angle for a violin to be drawn.the left hand isn't drawn properly but is in the correct position for a violin to be held. The chin would also fit perfectly onto the violin.

• RE: The thing (80v & 82r)

  -JKP- > 09-08-2018, 03:03 AM

  Wetmore Bible You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
  
     

• RE: The thing (80v & 82r)

  -JKP- > 21-09-2018, 01:41 PM

  Mercury (as a planetary ruler) with a "thing" (CGM 28):
  
     

• RE: The thing (80v & 82r)

  Linda > 05-02-2019, 11:05 PM

  I have found that within my interpretation, the 'things' are spindels and deal with direction and time differential between sailing the seas vs travelling via river basin to various places. I believe this ties back in with the fates, as in, there is always another way, of life, of living. So the 'things' represent choices involving time and direction. 
  
  Not only that, but the revelation i had recently is that each of the places involved are shown more than once in the quire. i tried to figure out the meaning behind the pointing, both forward and back and followed the routes as i had laid them out, until i ran into another, and it worked out that they point to one another despite there being unequal numbers of them.
  
  On You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. there are two nymphs with empty spindels, pointing behind them. 
  
  
  
  The first one is the one identified as Murcia, she is pointing her empty spindel in the direction of Cadiz from the perspective which we are looking at her, rather than its representation on the upper corner of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. by a male nymph.
  
  
  This is Koen's, the arrows are his, but is how i think the page order goes too. Murcia is the second nymph but there is a three way route to choose from, which i take to mean the first four nymphs, since one would pass Murcia to get to Cartegena. It is a curved river route, as indicated by the curved top of the starting spindel on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  
  These alternate routes still need star guidance for direction to join up the rivers to take you to your destination, so the red caput draconis symbol is relevant either way you choose to go. In the past, these rivers were navigable further inland than they are now. The river basins that can be used to make the journey are shown on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as a double rainbow, and the shoreline seen on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is duplicated on the right hand side of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. up to about halfway, the region of Valencia, to indicate the area south of there as possibly being accessible in this way.
  
  The other is Genoa, whose spindel points in the direction of Venice, but if you wanted to hit the next big waterbody after that, it also points to the Black Sea. Note there is a male nymph between Genoa and where Venice would be drawn. The starting spindel for that one is on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. which points to an area that at the time of the creation of the manuscript, and until a hundred years ago, was owned by Austria. We got there by following the stream from Genoa to Lake Garda and up the river. All rivers in that area drain either into the Po or other parallel rivers that all flow toward Venice. The Po river basin is also shown at the top of f82v also as a rainbow.
  
  That spindel on f80v does double or triple duty, as it says not only can we find Venice that way, we can go further, travelling through the Tyrol area of Switzerland via the Alpine Rhine to Lake Constance in Austria, then on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. it says we can find the Danube in Germany at the other end of Lake Constance and follow it to the Black Sea. There is another spindel carried behind the nymphs back on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. at the same spot as was occupied by the male nymph on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. except we found her by going the sea route through the Ionian, Aegean, and Marmora.
  
  
  This is Koen's diagram and i was surprised to see how well the blue line works
  
  
  Just the alpine portion of the Rhine is involved, although by implications you can get to other parts of Europe if you go that way. The fact that not much info seems to be included of the northern areas makes me think this is where the author and the audience is familiar, the quire is about places they may not have as much knowledge about?
  
  So, 5 spindels, 3 show the way they came, two point the way to go, with one of those doing double duty, or perhaps both.
  
  You can see the basics of all these routes on this map
  
  

• RE: The thing (80v & 82r)

  Koen G > 05-09-2020, 10:59 PM

     
  
  God the Creator, from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., 1464, Bruges.
  
  I know it's quite different, but it does have a pointy shape and a dotted line. It's not quite a celestial sphere, is it, with that shape?
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