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Hidden notes of the VMs
- Hidden notes of the VMs
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RE: Hidden notes of the VMs
Searcher > 06-02-2017, 09:56 PM
I want to add this to my collection of the hidden notes in the VMs.Thank VViews for that he has discerned this illegible writing, which I interpret as the well known bird-glyph. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
As well, I put here three fragments with one more sign which meaning and purpose is also unclear. It is not quite hidden, but, anyway, it is not obvious yet.
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RE: Hidden notes of the VMs
Anton > 06-02-2017, 10:06 PM
Quote:which I interpret as the well known bird-glyph.
Maybe this is a reference to some coat-of-arms? -
RE: Hidden notes of the VMs
Diane > 19-02-2018, 12:06 AM
I want to add thanks to VViews for that discovery on f.22v, and to Searcher for that on 94v.
94v appears to be another example of the scribe's being accustomed to the technique of sgraffito, something which (I think) Nick Pelling first commented on the Vms.
Rather than going off topic, I'll post another thread about sgraffito. -
RE: Hidden notes of the VMs
-JKP- > 19-02-2018, 07:57 AM
I guess I see something quite different in f22v. Not one shape but many and I don't know if any of them are meaningful:
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RE: Hidden notes of the VMs
Searcher > 22-02-2018, 12:15 AM
(19-02-2018, 07:57 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I guess I see something quite different in f22v. Not one shape but many and I don't know if any of them are meaningful:
JKP, I think the problem is in the big format of the image. To see the real picture, the better way is to minimize the fragment to the real size, at least, approximately. I always try to analyze an image using the real size, different zoom and a few ways of editing.
[image]
This time I turned the picture into monochrome and made a few steps of editing of contrast and regulation of brightness levels.
Look my spoiler below, if you want to know my view.
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RE: Hidden notes of the VMs
-JKP- > 22-02-2018, 01:52 AM
If you turn it upside down, it looks like embellished Pi or embellished gallows (note, dots added to make it clearer):
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RE: Hidden notes of the VMs
Paris > 03-03-2018, 05:26 PM
I'm not sure of this one.
It's on folio 83 recto.
Left side, third woman from the top.
We make a zoom in between her left arm and her chest.
And we make a rotation to the right, we obtain this :
With a little bit of imagination, we can read the two letters " a u ".
" a u " can mean a lot of things.
It should be the latin abbreviation of " aurum " = " gold ", in english. -
RE: Hidden notes of the VMs
Helmut Winkler > 03-03-2018, 06:17 PM
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RE: Hidden notes of the VMs
Searcher > 28-10-2022, 02:22 PM
Just a week ago, new member of the forum Odd_Honey_WV kindly shared his photos of the VMs facsimile printed by Manuscriptum (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). The special thing that caught my eye was a little area at the right bottom corner of f86r (Rosettes). You know why I take interest in it: I suspect hidden notes here. Those who don't know what this is about, just back to the beginning of this thread.
While I was and am still sure that one of the words is "Terra" (Lat. Earth), I suspected the second word next to it which is really indiscernible. I supposed several variants: RASA, BASA, ABSA, IPSA, PASA, but I couldn't be sury in any of them fully.
I discerned something another onYou are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. of f86r by Odd_Honey_WV, therefore I asked for a closer photo exactly of that fragment.
Well, it wasn't that quality I wanted but anyway many thanks for it.
These are the same fragment of the two provided original images (without any corrections). Although the images are not of good quality, they both show extremely the same outlines. These photos are made at differents angles, so if these shapes are just noise, it is noise from the facsimile, not from the photo.
I - original photo, II - correction of lighting levels, III - II + prompting.
I compared it to the Ros2 (Jason Davies's Voyage the VMs) and my previous interpretation of the notes:
The I line: I - original fragment from Ros2, II - my previous interpretation, III - my new interpretation;
The II line: Odd_Honey_WV's original photo 1.
The III line: I, II - correction of lighting and color levels on Odd_Honey_WV's photo 2; III - II + prompting.
(Just to note: the edge in the Manuscriptum's facsimile version is a little cutted.)
I'm very-very excited and interested to know whether these notes are really there. Reading "atra" seems to be more perspective from the point of view of the font size and placing in a line. As well, the version "TERRA ATRA" would be quite interesting, in fact, it is an analogue of "terra nigra", i. e., the black earth. It can be interpreted in a few senses:
1. Humus, the ground.
2. The blackness (nigredo) stage in alchemy.
3. An interpretation of the name "Egypt".
3. One of the interpretation of the word "alchemy", derived from the interpretation of "Egypt".
According to Plutarch (De Iside et de Osiride), Egypt was called Chemia, although it seems he refers this name to Cham, Noah's son. I'm not sure when "alchemy" and "Egypt" were interpreted as "black earth" at first. I didn't have enough time to research this, but I think it is interesting anyway. In another case, as the first letter still looks illegible, I'd suppose also "terra otra" (Sp. another earth), but "terra atra" seems to me more probable. So I'll repeat, it must be examined. -
RE: Hidden notes of the VMs
Hermes777 > 28-10-2022, 10:15 PM
(28-10-2022, 02:22 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Just a week ago, new member of the forum Odd_Honey_WV kindly shared his photos of the VMs facsimile printed by Manuscriptum (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). The special thing that caught my eye was a little area at the right bottom corner of f86r (Rosettes). You know why I take interest in it: I suspect hidden notes here. Those who don't know what this is about, just back to the beginning of this thread.
While I was and am still sure that one of the words is "Terra" (Lat. Earth), I suspected the second word next to it which is really indiscernible. I supposed several variants: RASA, BASA, ABSA, IPSA, PASA, but I couldn't be sury in any of them fully.
I discerned something another onYou are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. of f86r by Odd_Honey_WV, therefore I asked for a closer photo exactly of that fragment.
Well, it wasn't that quality I wanted but anyway many thanks for it.
These are the same fragment of the two provided original images (without any corrections). Although the images are not of good quality, they both show extremely the same outlines. These photos are made at differents angles, so if these shapes are just noise, it is noise from the facsimile, not from the photo.
I - original photo, II - correction of lighting levels, III - II + prompting.
I compared it to the Ros2 (Jason Davies's Voyage the VMs) and my previous interpretation of the notes:
The I line: I - original fragment from Ros2, II - my previous interpretation, III - my new interpretation;
The II line: Odd_Honey_WV's original photo 1.
The III line: I, II - correction of lighting and color levels on Odd_Honey_WV's photo 2; III - II + prompting.
(Just to note: the edge in the Manuscriptum's facsimile version is a little cutted.)
I'm very-very excited and interested to know whether these notes are really there. Reading "atra" seems to be more perspective from the point of view of the font size and placing in a line. As well, the version "TERRA ATRA" would be quite interesting, in fact, it is an analogue of "terra nigra", i. e., the black earth. It can be interpreted in a few senses:
1. Humus, the ground.
2. The blackness (nigredo) stage in alchemy.
3. An interpretation of the name "Egypt".
3. One of the interpretation of the word "alchemy", derived from the interpretation of "Egypt".
According to Plutarch (De Iside et de Osiride), Egypt was called Chemia, although it seems he refers this name to Cham, Noah's son. I'm not sure when "alchemy" and "Egypt" were interpreted as "black earth" at first. I didn't have enough time to research this, but I think it is interesting anyway. In another case, as the first letter still looks illegible, I'd suppose also "terra otra" (Sp. another earth), but "terra atra" seems to me more probable. So I'll repeat, it must be examined.
Fascinating investigations. The various meanings, humus, Egypt etc. are a constellation of associations based on the idea of the black soil of the Nile valley, which is a correlate to the darkness beyond the stars. (Modern revisionist scholars work very hard to say 'Cham' son of Noah does not mean "dark", but even if it is a folk etymology it is an ancient one and is implicit in Josephus.)
There are several lineages in European alchemy (to this day.) The "black earth" is primarily associated with the so-called Mutus Liber lineage which is concerned with Materia Prima. This is a quite distinct tradition from herbal alchemy (Paracelsean) and metallic alchemy. It is still a school of practical laboratory alchemy among fringe enthusiasts in Central Europe. This is the type of alchemy that tries to extract the Material Prima from the gross exudates of nature; manures, humus, dew etc. It doesn't usually use herbs or metals. It is agricultural.
So I would be surprised to find the Voynich MS. labelled with the words 'Black Earth' or similar, because it is clearly a text of herbal alchemy, or more accurately proto-Paracelsean, and does not seem to belong in that other stream of European alchemical thinking. Nor do the illustrations suggest a concern or quest for a Materia Prima. As a hidden message it seems incongruous. But entirely possible all the same. 'Black Earth' could just be generic, meaning broadly 'alchemical.'