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An earlier Marci?
- An earlier Marci?
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An earlier Marci?
-JKP- > 31-08-2018, 11:37 PM
René, is there any information on earlier members of Iohannes Marci's family (father, grandfather, uncles)?
There is a notation top-right (possibly an ex libris) at the end of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
![[Image: GeorgiusMarci.png]](https://voynichportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/GeorgiusMarci.png)
A[nn]o 1561 Ad 18 octobre
in ?p g? hispurg (hisburg) (might the third character be c-tail?)
R I D G? (N D G?)
Georgius Marcius
Handwritten manuscripts were on the wane in the 16th century, with mass-produced books quickly replacing them, so they tended to stay in the small circles of people who could afford them. The CLM 1111 is from the Alsace, but ended up in the Munich library, so may have moved around.
I thought you might like to take a look in case there's a possible connection Between George Marci and Iohannes Marcus Marci.
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Also, on a paleographical note... Note the looong serif on the "i" on the second and fourth lines. This is an uncommon way to write "i" (I have to really search to find examples) and matches the "i" in "chiton" "imiltos" "nim" and (to some extent) "mich" on 116v.
Also, the small looped "n" is also uncommon and close to the "n" in "nim".
Note also the 3rd character in the 2nd row. It's probably not "r" (r wasn't written this way unless it had a tail and this is not a tail), it's probably an open-top "p" (although I'm not completely sure) and might be the same long-serif open-top "p" that is above "ven mus mel".
It's not the same handwriting as the 116v marginalia, and one can see the evolution from Gothic to Humanist text (the ascender loops are gone, as gradually occurred in the 16th century), but there are enough similarities that MAYBE George Marci learned to write in the same region as the 116v marginalia writer. -
RE: An earlier Marci?
Anton > 31-08-2018, 11:47 PM
"RIDG" is maybe "reverendus in Domino... " or whatever the correct Latin phrasing -
RE: An earlier Marci?
Helmut Winkler > 01-09-2018, 09:14 AM
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A[nn]o 1561 Ad 18 octobre
in ?p g? hispurg (hisburg) (might the third character be c-tail?)
R I D G? (N D G?)
Georgius Marcius
It is BSB München cgm 1111
Anno 1561 adj [anno dominicae incarnationis] 18 octobris
in regenspurg [Ratisbon]
NDG [Nomini Domini Gratias]
Georgius Marcius -
RE: An earlier Marci?
-JKP- > 01-09-2018, 10:02 AM
Ah! Thank you Helmut!
So the long stem belongs to the top line Adj rather than to the second line.
That makes much more sense. I couldn't figure out if the j (final "i") was "l" or "h" in the second line, but it doesn't belong to the second line at all, it's part of the first line. I was not familiar with "Adj".
Regenspurg (Regensburg) makes much more sense. It was one of the centers of publishing (and of book lovers) in the late medieval period. I had a feeling it was a place name but couldn't figure out which one had a long ascender (which turns out to be a descender from the line above).
...
The straight stem "e" and straight stem "c" are less common but I have seen them on rare occasions and at least this writer uses them somewhat consistently. I didn't recognize the straight stem "e" at first, but now I see it. -
RE: An earlier Marci?
-JKP- > 01-09-2018, 10:25 AM
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RE: An earlier Marci?
Helmut Winkler > 01-09-2018, 04:45 PM
(01-09-2018, 10:25 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(01-09-2018, 09:14 AM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.NDG [Nomini Domini Gratias]
Anton's suggestion gave me the idea it might be Reverendi in Dei Gratias...
Is it possible that it's Nomini Dei Gratias?
Nomen Domini is a common formula,
Adiutorium nostrum in nomine Domini Answer: Qui fecit coelum et terram, the beginning of the Stundengebet, the daily officium -
RE: An earlier Marci?
Anton > 01-09-2018, 07:08 PM
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This page says (Translation by Google):
"JAN MAREK MARCI was born in the Czech family of Mark Lanškrounský and Dorota rozená Peřinová, had a younger brother David and a sister whose first name we do not know. Mark's father was a clerk of the Pernštejn estate, first in Lanškroun, later in Litomyšl, where the family moved in 1601."
Another source in the internet suggests that his father was a burgrave of the Pernstein castle:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: An earlier Marci?
-JKP- > 01-09-2018, 10:42 PM
Thanks, Helmut and Anton.
I have read that it was very common in scholarly circles for fathers to teach their sons to write if they did not have the resources to hire a tutor.
I looked up some of my samples that use this style of "i" (extra-long straight serif, straight stem) and they're not common.
Many have small serifs or slightly curved stems, or curved serifs on the right-hand side, similar but not similar enough.
The ones that seem closest to George Marci's style of "i" are in manuscripts thought to be from the University of Basel, a Dominican monastery in Basel, a convent in Brussels, somewhere in Vienna, and five manuscripts with unknown origins. There's also an early legal document (1269) from Schaunberg with "i" written the same way and which also has the small rounded n.
It's not much to go on, but I'll file it for future reference. -
RE: An earlier Marci?
ReneZ > 02-09-2018, 09:48 AM
Dear JKP, all:
Quote:René, is there any information on earlier members of Iohannes Marci's family (father, grandfather, uncles)?
Sorry for a rather late response. A few months ago I did a major update to the biography of Marci (and others) here:
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which also clearly identifies the sources used. The Czech web article by You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.provided by Anton is clearly based on the same source.
The name of Marci's father is listed as follows: "Marek Lanškrounský" (as in the web article). The source for this is the wedding certificate of Marci's parents, but it is not clear if this is literally how it was written there. If so, the suggestion is that Marek was his first name.
No other senior relatives of Marci are known.
Servít suggests that the family was raised using the Czech language. The wedding certificate is in Czech, and so are some other early documents. Thus, Marci's family name "Marci" may simply mean "son of Marek", in a Latinised form.
Whether his father took over much of his early education is not known, but Marci's school career from elementary school onward is documented. From Gymnasium onward, Latin was the main language. He was clearly meant to follow a Jesuit career, but for some uncertain reason he did not become a Jesuit. This has been a topic of discussion among historians, because his official biography recorded by the Jesuits states that this was because of his weak voice. Since he did become a university professor, this is no longer believed.
There is an interesting anecdote from his earlier life. His brother David did enter the society of Jesus, and in his parental home there was a portrait of David in a Jesuit robe. One day it fell off the wall, and Johannes Marek's suggestion to his mother was that this either meant that he had just died, or he was expelled from the Society. It turned out that it was the second option.
In my personal opinion, the fact that Marci's brother was expelled from the Society is likely to be connected in some way with the fact that Marci never entered. -
RE: An earlier Marci?
Diane > 05-10-2018, 06:18 PM
JKP
Thanks for the mention of Regensburg, which is an interesting connection from my point of view because among the non-original details in a page of astronomical diagrams in the Vms, are faces drawn whose nearest comparison occurs in a few drawings made earlier in Regensburg. I won't go into great detail on the point again, since I shared that nformation quite some time ago, finding that it met with little interest.
Still, it's a nice connection for me, so thanks.