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• Most certain plant ID's?

• RE: Most certain plant ID's?

  Aga Tentakulus > 26-08-2022, 01:46 PM

  To create a defensible list one should approach it the same way as with the castles with the dovetail battlements. Pretty sure they come from the same place.
  Then there are about 170 classical medicinal plants where were used around 1400. These represent a second possibility of qualification.
  Recipes and how often and for what they were used is another possibility.
  A violet and castor bean meet these criteria and they look exactly the same.
  The meadowsweet keeps it visually exactly the same. special feature the tubers in the root.
  
  If I consider northern Italy as a possible place of origin, I will certainly find the plants in Italian medizinnischen manuscripts also.

• RE: Most certain plant ID's?

  Koen G > 26-08-2022, 03:26 PM

  Some test against historical practice and traditions would be welcome, though I'm not sure what it should look like. The comparison to the battlements isn't entirely fair: with the battlements, we have one positively identifiable item. We identify the item (swallowtail battlements) and check where it occurs. But when it comes to the plants, we would make an assumption about the nature and purpose of the VM plant collection, and then compare them to other known collections. But how can this help us when the VM does not overlap that much with known traditions, and we can only guess as to its purpose?

• RE: Most certain plant ID's?

  Helmut Winkler > 26-08-2022, 04:45 PM

  But this is what it interesing about B.408, it seems to be  the first scientific herbal outside the normal tradition

• RE: Most certain plant ID's?

  Aga Tentakulus > 26-08-2022, 04:46 PM

  In the meantime, it is assumed that the VM was created according to the C14 method around 1400-1440.
  If I accept this, I must also accept that no plant can come from America.
  If I accept now that pinnacles, from me also still crowns are massgeben, then I can also assume that no plant speaks for Africa or Far East.
  There is nothing unfair about it if I include the possibilities also for the plants.
  If one reads the recipes in the books always the same plants are mentioned, that is noticeable. What was used in the region has first priority.
  
  I sent my data so that one can work with it even if they are now in the wrong place.
  Whether they are all correct is not yet important, but they all meet the most important criteria.
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  I do not see the water lily as a real medicinal plant where to see in the VM. It was used, but mainly only as a chastity remedy in the monasteries. But is not a classical medicinal plant and was removed from the register around 1700.
  In my opinion it is the hazel root. It looks similar, is classic and appears in many recipes.
  
  My opinion, it is a good idea to make a list. But then you should do it right and not fall back on any old lists where are also still questionable.
  
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• RE: Most certain plant ID's?

  Koen G > 26-08-2022, 04:53 PM

  I am transcribing Ethel's notes now together with Marco, and one thing I can say is that she took this very seriously and seems to have approached the images with scientific curiosity. I have never been a fan of Sherwood's work, on the other hand.
  
  It seems sensible to me to exclude plants from the Americas. But using what appeared in traditional herbals as a guiding principle might be too restrictive.

• RE: Most certain plant ID's?

  R. Sale > 26-08-2022, 06:00 PM

  And then produce a list of those illustrations for which there is a consensus. As above.
  
  Which VMs researchers, original and modern, should be included? Will they produce a list of the 'most certain' plant ID's?
  
  Is there a consensus on f46v? Costmary was an ID by E. Velinska.
  
  Some VMs illustrations clearly seem to be more realistic than others. But what is the purpose or value of this realism? Is it a guide to something further? Is there a relationship between the illustration and the written text? If so, what is it? If not, then what?
  
  Is all written text equally valid - or is some text marked out as more significant than other examples?
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