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f33r
-JKP- > 13-05-2019, 03:14 AM
Okay, it took me 3 hours to gather all the pictures. Unfortunately, many of the better ones were on the stock photo sites, so I can't use those, and it took a long time to find others, but there were enough on Wikipedia to get the idea across.
I still have to paste them into a chart and label the chart, but as soon as I've done that I will add it to my 33r blog and make it live again. I'll drop a note when I'm done (I might take a break and have dinner in between). -
RE: Onomastica II
Koen G > 13-05-2019, 10:28 AM
Nice, it's been too long since we've had a good ol plant ID. The shape of the seed heads of nuphar is indeed much closer.
(Side note: I bet P. somniferum would also work well as an an-aphrodisiac though
)
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RE: f33r
Anton > 13-05-2019, 11:58 AM
As a quick summary, back then we discussed this plant from the perspective of papaver, and recently JKP proposed the nuphar version.
I think nuphar meets, in the first place, the problem of the leaves. If we consider that the leaves are meant to be naturalistic, then of nuphars only Nuphar sagittifolia has leaves somewhat like those. But is is a New World plant. As for Papaver, the leaves of real papaver do not look like these at all.
Next, if we consider that the leaves are meant to be purely mnemonic, then I must say the leaves do not remind me of arrowheads at all. The first impression that I had is that they strongly resemble owls. And Toxites in 16th century mentions Eulsatkraut as the name of Papaver. I wonder what would be the correct interpretation for that name - that is the question for German speakers - (and what may be the folklore connection between poppy and owl?), but for me it reads like "herb sown by an owl", since Eule is owl.
As for the heads. The heads exhibit no clear reference both for nuphar and papaver, except for their somewhat "sleepy" appearance. For papaver being related to sleep and death, that would be logical. Why two heads (JKP asks)? This may be purely decorative symmetry, or (I suppose), this may be a pair of deities such as Hypnos and Nyx. -
RE: f33r
Oocephalus > 13-05-2019, 01:56 PM
I would indeed translate Eulsatkraut as "owl seed herb". However, Pritzel says that "the other terms are from the used parts ... 5) oil (El, Eul, Huel, Lyne)". He also lists Oelsaat (oil seed) as a Low German name, although his list appears to mix names for the plant itself, its milky sap, oil, seeds etc. The ö sound is written as eu in Dutch (as in French) and this may also have been used in Low German. So I guess the name originally had nothing to do with owls, although it may have been interpreted that way. -
RE: f33r
Koen G > 13-05-2019, 02:20 PM
I guess the owl as a nocturnal bird could be linked to a sleep-inducing herb without the need of a direct linguistic link in the name. The problem is that we don't know yet whether to expect a mnemonic to be linguistic, or rather functional/conceptual. And with these leaves, they could certainly be based on a natural form.
Therefore I think it would be best to focus on the heads, since they are among the most obvious non-botanical elements of all the plants.
To me they don't look sleepy at all, with their wide open eyes. Especially the one on the left looks rather surprised or agitated, with some white of the eye visible above the iris.
The one on the right does look more relaxed. Maybe it's a before and after shot
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RE: f33r
Anton > 13-05-2019, 02:36 PM
I'd say they look sleepy, but not sleeping.
But the heads are remarkable in certain respects. First, as JKP points out, the hair is not long. That means that these are not heads of some ordinary people.
Second, these are not simple heads, with or without neck. Instead of the neck we see something which I would interpret as suggesting immateriality of these heads, they are kinda "emerging" - unless, of course, they are simply tubers. -
RE: f33r
Koen G > 13-05-2019, 02:41 PM
Yes, the bottom part of the heads has me puzzled as well. There is one important piece of evidence to add here, the root head in the small-plants section.
Note the very long point at the bottom. This head makes it more obvious that the point is a continuation of the root shape rather than a part of the head shape itself. The tapering end looks like root rather than mnemonic.
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RE: f33r
Anton > 13-05-2019, 02:43 PM
Another possibility is that the two represent Hypnos and Thanatos who were twins. That would explain the "symmetry".