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Good historical works on medieval educational methods?
- Good historical works on medieval educational methods?
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Good historical works on medieval educational methods?
RenegadeHealer > 14-09-2019, 06:30 PM
Can someone point me in the direction of some good historical reading about pedagogy in medieval Europe? I'd be particularly interested in writings that go into some detail about the mundane aspects of schooling, especially the materials typically used, the way lessons were structured, and what a student was expected to do. Obviously I'd be most interested in a historian who used source materials dating from the approximate time and place the VMS was written, but I'd be happy with just a general overview of pedagogy in the early fifteenth century, for those fortunate enough to receive any schooling at all.
What inspired me to want to look up medieval educational methods is that I noticed a number of clues about the VMS would fit together nicely if it were a student's notebook. I'd like to explore and flesh out this hypothesis a bit more (or abandon it if it keeps crashing into anachronisms), but I need to know more about the historical background of the Alpine region of Europe at the time, particularly who learned the arts / sciences / "natural law", and how they learned it. -
RE: Good historical works on medieval educational methods?
davidjackson > 14-09-2019, 07:50 PM
This is a very complex subject, as medieval attitudes to education varied enormously from our own concepts.
I could summarise it by saying that the medieval European believed that the "ancients", the Greeks and Romans, had far more knowledge than they did, and so the point of education was not to advance through research, but to rediscover the lost knowledge of the ancients.
From that paradigm arose scholasticism. Research questions were resolved through debate, or dialectics, based always upon pre-existing knowledge.
Basically, a student was expected to memorise vast amounts of knowledge, and be expected to be well versed in the art of Rhetoric and debate. A university professor would not teach - instead, he would lead debates, one to one knock-outs amongst his students until only the best (the ones who had memorised the most, the ones who could regurgitate the largest amounts of ancient knowledge) survived.
To a certain amount, independent thinkers were viewed with suspicion.
Read up on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.for more information on university education. -
RE: Good historical works on medieval educational methods?
ReneZ > 14-09-2019, 07:55 PM
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RE: Good historical works on medieval educational methods?
davidjackson > 14-09-2019, 07:57 PM
PS: You asked about articles - I can highly recommend Philip Daileader's "high middle ages" great coursework. Also available as audiobooks. He had a very good one on scholasticism and medieval education. -
RE: Good historical works on medieval educational methods?
-JKP- > 14-09-2019, 09:08 PM
Many of the medieval schools were run by monasteries. This example eventually led to public school systems.
The Jesuits were particularly interested in education and set up numerous schools and libraries (and many of the Jesuit clergy were university professors). In fact, Jacobi de Tepenecz was educated by Jesuits on a sort of poor-person's scholarship given to children who showed promise but came from families with minimal means.
There are many school registers extant for the universities, saying who was a student, what they studied. The University of Paris has many records, Heidelberg, also.
University education was surprisingly similar to the way it is today, except that they frequently entered university at a younger age than now. One of the major differences, however, is that professors had more autonomy and often taught out of their own homes, but were nevertheless associated with the university.
One significant difference is that many teachers traveled (this was true right up until the early 20th century). They went to the students rather than the other way around (sometimes as tutors to families with money).
There was no official separation of church and state so a large part of education was religious. -
RE: Good historical works on medieval educational methods?
Koen G > 14-09-2019, 09:18 PM
What I would be very interested in is to know what kinds of exercises they did to train the art of memorization itself. These techniques, like loci and the creation of mental imagenes were also passed down from ancient times, but they are not the kind of thing one does naturally. Like David says, memorization was the cornerstone of education.. so how did they teach and train this skill? -
RE: Good historical works on medieval educational methods?
davidjackson > 14-09-2019, 09:42 PM
(14-09-2019, 09:18 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.so how did they teach and train this skill?
A large stick and much hard work, I reckon.
I think old Bill Ockham said it best: “No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary.” In other words, if it isn't self-evident, or God didn't say it, best leave it alone and just use the tools you have. -
RE: Good historical works on medieval educational methods?
-JKP- > 14-09-2019, 09:44 PM
Rhyme was a BIG part of educational training in the Middle Ages.
Rhyme is easier to remember. Many medieval manuscripts are written in rhyme, not only because it's pleasant to hear (books were often read aloud), but because oral tradition had passed down these rhymes and someone eventually wrote them down (or made up new rhymes based on old stories). -
RE: Good historical works on medieval educational methods?
RenegadeHealer > 15-09-2019, 01:23 PM
(14-09-2019, 07:50 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is a very complex subject, as medieval attitudes to education varied enormously from our own concepts.
I could summarise it by saying that the medieval European believed that the "ancients", the Greeks and Romans, had far more knowledge than they did, and so the point of education was not to advance through research, but to rediscover the lost knowledge of the ancients.
From that paradigm arose scholasticism. Research questions were resolved through debate, or dialectics, based always upon pre-existing knowledge.
Basically, a student was expected to memorise vast amounts of knowledge, and be expected to be well versed in the art of Rhetoric and debate. A university professor would not teach - instead, he would lead debates, one to one knock-outs amongst his students until only the best (the ones who had memorised the most, the ones who could regurgitate the largest amounts of ancient knowledge) survived.
To a certain amount, independent thinkers were viewed with suspicion.
Read up on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.for more information on university education.
Interestingly enough, I strongly suspect the culture of medicine and the way it initiates new physicians inherited a lot of its general format and flavor from scholasticism. Almost everything you just wrote could have been written about my experience with medical training. The only exception is the part about lost ancient knowledge; modern medicine is much more future-oriented than past-oriented. But new medical trainees will be definitely be tortured emotionally until they come to a realization that they know nothing, and are empty vessels prostrate before their teachers, waiting to be filled. This was typically called "being [more] humble" in medical training. Independent thinking and bringing life experience and knowledge from outside of the medical field are not encouraged, because these things do not encourage humility. Being obedient, and memorizing encyclopedic amounts of knowledge from the greats who came before you are the done thing. Blessed are those medical students who take to heart Socrates famous proclamation: "I know nothing."
I grew up with many family members who were teachers (though all in the liberal humanities, not the sciences), and I naively thought that I understood all Western pedagogy was headed in the direction of informal congenial discussions and free expression of ideas. I got a very rude awakening in medical school.
I'll stop navel-gazing now. What makes this pertinent to the VMS is that medicine appears to be one of the major topics that the VMS might cover, and that a student who composed it might have been learning. It fascinates me as a physician that this mysterious old book I'm obsessed with might have a deep connection to my line of work, and the tradition of medical education. I definitely want to talk to some of my teachers and colleagues who know about the history of medicine and medical education in the West, and see what they could tell me about how physicians were trained in the middle ages.