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What are labels?

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• What are labels?

• What are labels?

  -JKP- > 01-10-2020, 11:16 PM

  I was going to post in the "word order" thread and then realized this topic needs a thread of its own.
  
  What are labels?
  
  For example, there are numerous pieces of text between nymphs on the zodiac-figure folios.
  
  

  • On 57v are there labels? Can the one token outside the circles be considered a label? Are the tokens inside the inner circle labels?
    
  • Is the short piece of text on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. a label?
    
  • Are the tokens in the left column of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. labels? Does the text at the bottom of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. include labels?
    
  • Are there labels in the rings or spokes of the cosmo folios? (f67 to f70r)?
    
  • On f72, can we consider the text within the lines to be labels or something else? Are the tokens between nymphs labels?
    
  • Are the short bits on the lower left of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. labels? What about the single chars on the top right?
    
  • Are the tokens at the top of f77r f77v f78r and f80r labels? Why does You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. not have similar labels?
    
  • Is the short text on the bottom left of 81v a label or labels?
    
  • Is the text within the rainbow on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. comprised of labels or is it only partly labels?
    
  • Te text at the top right and the two stubby chunks on the lower right of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are they labels?
    
  • Are there parts of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. that are labels?
    
  • Are there any labels on f85r4 (moon circle) or f86r2?
    
  • What about the rosettes folio f85v ? Are some labels and some not?
    

  
  It's difficult to do computational attacks or to generalize about labels without defining which pieces of text are included and which are not (and the reasons for the choice).

• RE: What are labels?

  Koen G > 01-10-2020, 11:43 PM

  To be honest, with "labels" I mostly think about the small plants because those look the absolute safest. Next category is words with drawings in other sections, like with nymphs in Q13.
  
  I would not consider words that don't immediately seem to belong with an image.

• RE: What are labels?

  Voynichgibberish > 02-10-2020, 04:09 AM

  On average and in general terms, my thoughts that some labels retain a behavior where they are just to the right of an image.  On occasions a label could be to the left, below or on top.
  
  I'm suggesting these are labels because the Author took the time to write a one word label next to an image far often to the right of a label like in the stars section of f68r1.  Yet these one vord labels like JKP states are hard to pin down.  I do have to believe they relate mostly to nouns as in Subjects and at times Objects.

• RE: What are labels?

  Linda > 02-10-2020, 02:22 PM

  (01-10-2020, 11:16 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What are labels?
  
  
  

  • On 57v are there labels? Can the one token outside the circles be considered a label? Are the tokens inside the inner circle labels?
    

  I guess i would treat the words in the center circle as such, plus the word on the outside of the circles but treat the rest as sentences or symbols for the single glyphs.
  

  • Is the short piece of text on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. a label?
    

  I would treat it as one just because that is all there is
  

  • Are the tokens in the left column of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. labels? Does the text at the bottom of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. include labels?
    

  1. Yes i would treat them as such
  2. No, i would treat that as a sentence
  

  • Are there labels in the rings or spokes of the cosmo folios? (f67 to f70r)?
    

  There are some i would consider labels or at least treat them as such.
  

  • On f72, can we consider the text within the lines to be labels or something else? Are the tokens between nymphs labels?
    

  Something else within the lines, labels between the nymphs.
  

  • Are the short bits on the lower left of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. labels? What about the single chars on the top right?
    

  1. Labels. Plus the 6 on the top of the drawing, makes one for each nymph. The bodiless one i think might get her own single glyph label, do you know the one i mean? Does that make it a new symbol? If it were, it would probably stand for island. There was a historic island in the body of water i equate to this drawing that existed until the last century, so it likely existed at the time of vms creation, but the glyph placement pointing out the second nymph makes more sense as to its location than the bodiless nymph's head does so it could be a two part mnemonic. I haven't investigated to see if this applies elsewhere, i tend to doubt it since the glyph is highly used as an ending character.
  2. Symbols. I think these match some of the ones on the left side of f76r, which coincidentally is currently right beside this one, so these are in the centrefold near each other. Sometimes i think the current binding gives clues, sometimes i think the ones who bound it were more clueless than we are. I think it might be why the text has strange structure, i think the glyphs to the left on f76r, which i consider the quire cover page,  are outlined as symbols which add information to the base words they are added to. Or maybe they are all symbols, but as there are only a few in the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. list i suggest we remove those from the rest of the text of quire 13, and look at what is left. Has anyone done this?
  

  • Are the tokens at the top of f77r f77v f78r and f80r labels? Why does You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. not have similar labels?
    

  1. Labels.
  2. This is based on my own interpretation, but i think the difference is that the others represent land which borders the sea. F80v speaks of rivers and lakes of the Alps. If the labels were based on portolan style maps, then inland places would be far less likely to have labels. In addition, the places on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are not drawn to the same scale as the others, being a collection of differently sized references, likely for a similar reason that these were not generally included details on nautical maps. 
  

  • Is the short text on the bottom left of 81v a label or labels?
    

  Label. I can't see it being a two worded continuation to the text above, nor a two word sentence, unless it said 'right here'. I dont know which of many of its two worded names it might be though, or maybe it includes two from different times or one of its current ones split in two perhaps. It has alternately through time been considered a swamp, a lake, and a sea. It is the shallowest sea. Current name means low lands. 
  

  • Is the text within the rainbow on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. comprised of labels or is it only partly labels?
    

  Partly labels, partly sentences about them.
  

  • Te text at the top right and the two stubby chunks on the lower right of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are they labels?
    

  I don't know. They don't seem to correspond one to one with the nymphs, although i suppose one or two could have two word labels. The first group seems more like a sentence, the latter two like lists.
  

  • Are there parts of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. that are labels?
    

  I don't see any upon a cursory glance
  

  • Are there any labels on f85r4 (moon circle) or f86r2?
    

  I don't think so
  

  • What about the rosettes folio f85v ? Are some labels and some not?
    

  Yes, the writing inside the rings seems like sentences as does that within the spiral, the rest seem like labels or lists

• RE: What are labels?

  Anton > 02-10-2020, 06:49 PM

  I guess the core of JKP's question is "what standalone pieces of text should we include in analysis when we want to analyse labels?"
  
  But to answer this question, it's necessary, first of all, to answer another question: "what is "a label" from the viewpoint of our analysis"?

• RE: What are labels?

  -JKP- > 02-10-2020, 10:34 PM

  Yes, thank you Anton. That's what I had in mind.

• RE: What are labels?

  Linda > 03-10-2020, 03:35 AM

  I think of labels as being applicable to the imagery, they are there in support of the image, to provide its identification. They would be standalone words. A collection of them might make a list, but not sentences.

• RE: What are labels?

  ReneZ > 03-10-2020, 09:40 AM

  Of the approximately 1000 'labels' in the Voynich MS, there are 300 that are not near a drawing element, so rather they are stand-alone words.
  
  The well-known Latin Dioscurides in Munich (Clm 337) has Greek numbers near the drawings, which look like labels.
  
  Many cosmological diagrams (incl. wind diagrams) have adjectives as 'labels' (not necessarily near drawing elements).
  
  The "Byrhtferth" diagram, that has been discussed here already, I think, combines names, nouns, adjectives and numbers as labels.

• RE: What are labels?

  Anton > 03-10-2020, 11:57 AM

  So, in a nutshell, firslty one has to determine what is a "label" positionally in the folio - i.e. should it be included into the sample or should it not. Secondly, one has to bear in mind that "labels" thus included into the sample would not necessarily be labels in our common sense - that is, nouns. They may well be different parts of speech, serving as references rather than denominations.

• RE: What are labels?

  Koen G > 03-10-2020, 12:34 PM

  But for practical purposes, say you want to study Voynichese nouns, wouldn't you get the best odds by focusing on standalone words that accompany drawing elements? So for that specific purpose, I would omit multi-word labels and anything that does not actually accompany an image.
  
  A different research question might of course need a different selection.
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