• Options
• Login
• Desktop Style

Counting on stars

• Index

  • The Voynich Ninja
  • Voynich Research
  • Imagery
  • Counting on stars
• Counting on stars

• Counting on stars

  R. Sale > 17-02-2021, 09:45 PM

  If it is accepted that VMs Virgo is a combination of Christian and classical influences, then it would fit in with the trends toward the form of ideological syncretism that occurred in the 15th C. 
  
  The star in Virgo is Spica, and there's a story behind that too.
  
  In the VMs, Virgo has a star inside its medallion. Which other VMs medallions have a star inside?
  
  Unless I missed something, only two other VMs zodiac medallions have stars inside: Pisces has two stars and Scorpio has one. What is the reason for that?
  
  The primary star in Scorpio is Aldebaran. But what are the two stars in Pisces - from a medieval perspective?
  
  Based on pairing, first Pisces is a pair together. Then the others are a pair apart. Aldebaran is red and Spica is blue.
  
  Many stars around the VMs medallions have been painted. Some are solid gold; others are fainter. All the way to where it's unclear if they have been painted or not. There are groups of stars with yellow centers and a few painted blue. And just one (?) with a couple touches of red.
  
  Do these stars already have a thread?

• RE: Counting on stars

  DONJCH > 17-02-2021, 11:45 PM

  (17-02-2021, 09:45 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The primary star in Scorpio is Aldebaran.

  You mean Antares, Aldebaran is in Taurus, both are bright red stars.

• RE: Counting on stars

  Koen G > 17-02-2021, 11:59 PM

  Isn't there a conflict between the signs of the Zodiac in what might be something we would call astrology on the one hand, and named fixed stars on the other?
  
  And if they were interested in named stars, why not include notable stars in other constellations, like the bull's red eye or one of the many others? 
  
  Here's what I think: Virgo often holds a flower. They put a star on the stalk instead. Similarly, pisces also includes a line, so they added stars there as well. No idea about Scorpio though.

• RE: Counting on stars

  MichelleL11 > 18-02-2021, 12:44 AM

  (17-02-2021, 11:59 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Here's what I think: Virgo often holds a flower. They put a star on the stalk instead. Similarly, pisces also includes a line, so they added stars there as well. No idea about Scorpio though.

  
  The inconsistency suggests that it may be direct copying of the original -- unless we can come up with a convincing argument as to why Pisces, Virgo, and Scorpio only.  Of course, that degrades into why was it done in the original.  But I'd bank it could "all be explained" at least from the point of view of the VM, if the source calendar or lot book (my two favorite possible sources, admittedly hardly original) could be found.
  
  The strongest argument against this, in my opinion, is the use of the ubiquitous tailed stars with the nymphs -- but we could flip it around and hypothesize that the calendar or lot book stylization was the source of that idea.

• RE: Counting on stars

  R. Sale > 18-02-2021, 01:38 AM

  Thanks, Koen, maybe my fumbling about can advance this topic.
  
  According to an explanation of the Latin, spica virginis, spica is the ear of wheat held by the virgin. Given the potential for conflation of Spica with the 'maris stella' and of Virgo with the Virgin Mary, the combined result, after getting familiar with it, begins to seem like a natural association well-fitted to VMs era.
  
  It does seem hard to explain why Pisces, which has no (yet known to me) stars of primary significance gets two VMs stars inside the medallion, while another zodiac sign  e.g . Taurus - credit above - has no VMs star - *in the medallion* where one should surely be. And there may be other omissions of relative significance as well. 
  
  All the stars around the medallions are held (possessed) by nymphs (humanoids). In the medallions, Virgo is the only humanoid with a star. The other stars within medallions belong to Pisces and Scorpio. Other humanoids, other animals in the medallions get no stars. Is there method, or just madness? Can we separate the two?

• RE: Counting on stars

  ReneZ > 18-02-2021, 06:06 AM

  (17-02-2021, 11:59 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Isn't there a conflict between the signs of the Zodiac in what might be something we would call astrology on the one hand, and named fixed stars on the other?

  
  Not necessarily. The star catalogue of Ptolemy expressed one of the two position coordinates of a star (namely its longitude) as the combination: zodiac sign + degrees inside the zodiac sign (0-30).
  This means that in works we would now call astronomical, the zodiac signs played an important role.
  On the other hand, these works would not restrict themselves to the zodiac constellations. The medallions in the Voynich MS may be assumed to be more of astrological nature (in the modern sense).
  
  Since one of the two stars in the Pisces sign has a label, and there are only 29 labelled nymphs around it, a valid possibility is that this should be considered as "one of the thirty". This possibility should not be ignored when trying to understand the meaning of these stars in the zodiac emblems.
  
  Another possibility is that these stars in the emblems could be the planets.

• RE: Counting on stars

  DONJCH > 18-02-2021, 10:04 AM

  Virgo ends in autumn equinox, Pisces in spring equinox, Scorpio, no idea.
  2 hits and a miss = bust?
  There was some similar speculation in another thread...

• RE: Counting on stars

  VViews > 18-02-2021, 10:23 AM

  I've always wondered why these three have stars and not the other central medallions.
  There are also two signs missing, so a possibility that Capricorn or Aquarius may have had a star too.
  Like DONJCH, I've tried finding some kind of common feature between the three but nothing seems to really add up.
  As MichelleL says, we can't just consider Virgo's star in isolation. Whatever explanation there is, it resulted in stars in all three signs, at least.
  It has crossed my mind that these might be the star signs of the manuscript's creators, or a marker that these astrological periods had some special personal importance to them.

• RE: Counting on stars

  ReneZ > 18-02-2021, 10:47 AM

  (18-02-2021, 10:23 AM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It has crossed my mind that these might be the star signs of the manuscript's creators, or a marker that these astrological periods had some special personal importance to them.

  
  Absolutely possible. This may also be a reason why it starts with Pisces and not Aries.

• RE: Counting on stars

  Antonio García Jiménez > 18-02-2021, 04:22 PM

  What if Capricorn and Aquarius never existed and the zodiacal calendar begins in Piscis because that's when plants start to grow? The VM is a book about stars and plants, isn't it?
  We are going to enter Piscis and the almond trees will begin to bloom
• Next Oldest Next Newest