• Options
• Login
• Desktop Style

[split] Viola manuscript images

• Index

  • The Voynich Ninja
  • Voynich Research
  • Imagery
  • [split] Viola manuscript images
• [split] Viola manuscript images

• [split] Viola manuscript images

  Koen G > 26-02-2021, 12:14 PM

  Is any viola in manuscripts illustrated differently than odorata? I did a quick google search and as JKP suggests, odorata is about all I find. The habit of the plant and shape of the leaves are unmistakably different from the more tricolor-like image in the VM. The first examples I found all look like odorata:
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (c. 1400)
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (c. 1500)
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is an example from a later book where the white violet does exhibit the habit of the VM plant.

• RE: Viola: Transcriptions

  MarcoP > 26-02-2021, 07:03 PM

  (26-02-2021, 12:14 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is an example from a later book where the white violet does exhibit the habit of the VM plant.

  
  The book references Dioscorides' "Leukoion". You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. presents two variants of Leukoion side by side. The one on the right (Leukoion Thalassion) appears to be more similar to the VMS illustration, but the flowers are quite different. Dioscorides says that the Romans called the plant "viola alba marina" (marine white violet), but the flowers are painted blue. Anyway, this plant does not look like what is today known as "viola alba". I have been unable to find a transcription of the Greek text.

• RE: [split] Viola manuscript images

  Koen G > 26-02-2021, 08:51 PM

  Thanks Marco, this is quite interesting. So might the VM's tricolor actually be a combination of odorata and some "viola alba"?
  
  Edited to add: I split this thread off the terminology discussion after JKP noted that viola in medieval manuscripts is usually V. odorata.

• RE: [split] Viola manuscript images

  MarcoP > 26-02-2021, 11:01 PM

  (26-02-2021, 08:51 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I split this thread off the terminology discussion after JKP noted that viola in medieval manuscripts is usually V. odorata.

  
  Thank you, Koen!
  In my opinion, it is Viola Odorata in the Tractatus De Herbis tradition. In the Pseudo-Apuleius collection, actually Pseudo-Dioscorides, Liber medicinae ex herbis femininis, including You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., "viola" appears to derive from Dioscorides' Viola Alba.
     
  
  
  In the Pseudo-Apuleius,  viola Odorata is named "purpurea" ("ion porphyroyn" in Dioscorides).
  VMS 9v is quite different from both "alba" and "odorata", so I don't see why Viola Odorata should be more relevant in this context. If I visually compare "viola alba" and "odorata" in Dioscorides and a Pseudo-Apuleius (Plutei 73.16) I can only agree with what you wrote about the German printed Krauterbuch: the Dioscoridean white violet at least shows a similar habit to the Voynich plant. I don't understand why "odorata" should be regarded as more relevant, but these discussions are unlikely to lead anywhere: I will leave it at that.
     

• RE: [split] Viola manuscript images

  Koen G > 26-02-2021, 11:28 PM

  Thanks for the examples, Marco.
  
  I agree that odorata is likely irrelevant to this discussion, and I agree with JKP that if the VM plant is not some kind of combination, then the best option is Viola tricolor, as the plant is (I think) traditionally identified.
  
  I was merely trying to wrap my head around paradoxical situation. The flowers of the VM plant give it away 100% as a viola, but the combination of the typical viola shape with this habit is apparently not found in any herbal tradition. 
  
  If I recall correctly, JKP wrote before that he thinks the plant may have been drawn from herbarium specimen (this idea may be older, I don't know). I can see where this is coming from: the flower of Viola tricolor is hanging from its stem, so if you were to flatten the specimen, the flower would become oriented as it is in the VM.
  
  But then on the other hand, at least to me, the VM large plants look more like they are based on herbal illustrations rather than drawn from real life.
  
     

• RE: [split] Viola manuscript images

  MarcoP > 26-02-2021, 11:28 PM

  A great illustration of Viola Tricolor appears in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., Grandes Heures d'Anne de Bretagne. Of course this amazing manuscript is almost one century later than the VMS (1503-1508).

• RE: [split] Viola manuscript images

  -JKP- > 27-02-2021, 02:39 AM

  There were many many different species called "viola" in the Middle Ages. In Germany alone, I have found about a dozen plants (different species) with violet-colored flowers that were labeled "viola". Before Linnaeus it was a more general term (usually describing the flower color) than it is now.
  
  Some of the common names for Viola tricolor include Trinitatis, Heart's Ease, Styvmorsviol, Phlozion (and numerous more poetic ones like "love in idleness").
  
  
  There were also plants shaped like Viola (with a variety of flower colors) that were called viola. For example, a different species, Caltha palustris, which is usually called "marsh marigold" was also sometimes called "viola martia".

• RE: [split] Viola manuscript images

  -JKP- > 27-02-2021, 02:44 AM

  By the 17th century, many botanical drawings of Viola tricolor were extant, and they are more similar to the VMS drawing.
  
  My guess as to why this is so is that the VMS is, in general, is more naturalistic than many medieval plant drawings, and 17th century drawings were also more naturalistic than drawings from previous traditions (by this time botany had become a field in its own right).
  
  The "water lily" root is more than a century ahead of its time in terms of accuracy and detail, so it seems possible that the Viola drawing could be ahead of its time also, if it is based on a real plant rather than slavishly copying 14th or early-15th century drawings.

• RE: [split] Viola manuscript images

  -JKP- > 27-02-2021, 04:19 AM

  I think the examples in the Naples manuscript are probably from the Brassicaceae family, which is distinctive for the way the pods and 4 petals are arranged. Sometimes the petals even look like butterflies (as in the picture) because they are slightly asymmetric.
  
  The Brassicaceae family includes common plants like mustard, rocket (Eruca), Sisymbrium, and Cardamine (Mignonette), rock cress (Aubrieta), Schaum cress (Arabidopsis). Many of these were used medicinally and also as salad greens.
  
  Here are some examples that I was able to grab quickly (I have more):
  
  

• RE: [split] Viola manuscript images

  Aga Tentakulus > 27-02-2021, 05:47 AM

  It could be relevant as far as Viola odorata is mentioned separately as VM-F11r. Then both would have to be treated separately.
  
  Marco's are a nice example. Harley and Trinity.
  That could even be a transcript.
  Not only because the plants are drawn almost identically, but the word order and choice of words is very similar.
• Next Oldest Next Newest