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RE: f90v2
Koen G > 10-03-2021, 09:28 PM
Such a beautiful tree, I was not familiar with it. It's not a bad proposal in my opinion, though I suspect there will be herbs that match as well. This is one of those plants that looks relatively naturalistic. -
RE: f90v2
-JKP- > 11-03-2021, 01:31 AM
I'm pretty sure this VMS plant is Valerian phu. It has two very distinct characteristics... the flowers at the top of the stalk split into three, and the leaves are narrow, opposite, and odd pinnate.
Scabiosa is another possibility, but it doesn't always split into 3, sometimes it's 1 or 2 or 4, so the shape of the flower is more important than how many are at the top.
VMS 90v2 is one of the more naturalistic VMS plants, and is drawn similarly to some of the medieval drawings of phu (which is not surprising since Phu has distinctive characteristics).
![[Image: VMS90v2Phu.png]](https://voynichportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/VMS90v2Phu.png)
I blogged about it in 2013 (when there weren't as many medieval herbals available):
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Actually, these drawings are a good representation of how people thought in the Middle Ages. The two top images are later ones, more naturalistic, the bottom ones are medieval and early Renaissance and somewhat more schematic. If you think of it in these terms... what are the most distinctive characteristics? then you can see that the drawings are created to emphasize the flowers and leaves (not to make them look "real"), which is what you look for in this specific plant.
Notice how the VMS is the only one that caught the nubby shapes at the base of the flower head (you can also see this in the later pic above it). This is why I love the VMS. It was someone who knew a few things about plants or, at the very least, was paying attention to some of the details that were not noticed or not considered important by most other plant illustrators at the time. -
RE: f90v2
-JKP- > 11-03-2021, 02:01 AM
The Trinity herbal also includes phu, but it's a bad drawing. Each flower is on a separate stalk and the leaves are not odd-pinnate. You would never guess the right plant without the label.
I don't have time to screensnap them, still working, but Canon Misc 500 and Kreuterbuch are also basically the same style of drawing. Cadamosto is little different. It has the correct leaves, but only a single flower, which means it could be yarrow or another species of Valerian. Magnarum also has a single flower, also probably another species of Valerian (maybe V. dioica or V. tuberosa instead of V. phu). -
RE: f90v2
Aga Tentakulus > 11-03-2021, 10:59 AM
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RE: f90v2
-JKP- > 11-03-2021, 11:06 AM
Clover doesn't characteristically split into three flowerheads, it doesn't have the nubs at the base of the petals. The leaves are usually trifoliate, but it never has odd-pinnate leaves (in the sense of rows of leaves on one stalk) as in the VMS drawing.
Purple prairie clover sometimes has 5 leaves (technically odd pinnate), but they are not on long stalks with many leaves on each branch (usually not more than 5) and it is a North American plant. Also, the flowerhead is like plantain. It is not like the other clovers.
Sulla clover has odd-pinnate leaves, it's also in the bean family, but it has flowers like pea plants.
Here is how they drew clover in the Middle Ages and early Renaissance (the emphasis was always on the trifoliate leaves):
Bodley 130, which is a very old herbal, has a naturalistic and quite recognizable drawing of pink clover. -
RE: f90v2
Aga Tentakulus > 11-03-2021, 11:43 AM
You could certainly be right about that.
I have compared it with f17r. It didn't help.
But actually I stopped investigating at 90v2, there are just too many possibilities.
I think maybe chance will play a solution for me here. But so far I'm open to ideas.
I'm working on something else right now, so your help would be appreciated. It seems like an interesting theory. It involves a contribution from your side.
But I still need some time.
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