- Options
- Login
- Desktop Style
Options
Yet another solution: The Voynich Silenen Comedy
- Yet another solution: The Voynich Silenen Comedy
-
RE: Yet another solution: The Voynich Silenen Comedy
hatoncat > 04-04-2023, 12:13 AM
(26-03-2023, 07:14 PM)lelle Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
There's a PDF available for download in English.
I couldn't find any description of the methodology in it though.
Since there is a connection to the Heiligenkreuz University, I had high hopes for this decipherment, but from a quick look it seems I got my hopes up in vain.
What do you think?
I have machine translated the German section into English, because he includes much more information in the first 42 pages than in the remaining 24:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
here is my 7 day analysis so far: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (begins 3/28)
It's been said that the margin of error on radiocarbon can be several decades, thus late 1400s/ early 1500s is not impossible. Also, Kaspar von Silenen was the first commander of the Swiss Guard, and died in 1517.
It does appear to be a preview for a book release, though I am curious if his university or any other university is working with him. He posted in one of his screenshots files from mid 2020, so it is possible he's worked on it quietly for 3 years. -
RE: Yet another solution: The Voynich Silenen Comedy
hatoncat > 04-04-2023, 06:38 PM
Quote:The marginal note "Brug" You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. means the Habsburg city "Brugg" in older spelling, or it is written intentionally distorted.
This is the 1st quire mark, perfectly normal abbreviated Latin "primus".
[/quote]
This may be a moonshot, but Egloff Etterlin was born in Brugg, was a scribe for the city of Lucerne and his handwriting could be compared to the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. marginalia:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. [picture]
"Egloff Etterlin (c. 1400 – c. 1470) served as secretary of the city of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. from 1427 until 1452, and during 1458/9 as judge.
"[font=sans-serif]He is the author of the "Silver Book" (Silbernes Buch), an extensive You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. which was richly ornamented in 1505. Introducing Italian methods of book-keeping, he greatly facilitated the organisation of the Lucerne chancery, allowing the administration of the growing You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and its presidency in the Swiss Diet. Egloff is the father of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. It is uncertain whether Egloff himself was the author of a (lost) chronicle. Egloff died at some point between 1469 and 1477."[/font]
The parchment was radiocarbon dated to the early-mid 1400s. Is it possible Jost obtained the mostly unused parchment from Egloff, who wrote in his birthplace, as they both were in Lucerne at the time? Has anyone suggested Etterlin wrote part of the manuscript?
[font=sans-serif]"[font=sans-serif]Dedicated to the clergy, in his thirteenth year he[Jost von Silenen] received a benefice from the Lucerne monastery, among whose members he is named in 1457, but then he went to Rome and entered the service of the cardinal of Estouteville. In 1469 the Lucerne Council appointed him provost of the Beromünster monastery. [/font][/font]
[font=sans-serif][font=sans-serif]Another theory is that a German speaking owner such as Kirchner attempted to annotate the page containing the coat of arms Brugg (AG), although his handwriting or pen is not nearly the same as the the broader strokes of VM: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[/font][/font] -
RE: Yet another solution: The Voynich Silenen Comedy
MarcoP > 04-04-2023, 07:25 PM
(04-04-2023, 06:38 PM)hatoncat Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Quote:The marginal note "Brug" You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. means the Habsburg city "Brugg" in older spelling, or it is written intentionally distorted.
This is the 1st quire mark, perfectly normal abbreviated Latin "primus".
LOL thank you for digging out this gem! -
RE: Yet another solution: The Voynich Silenen Comedy
hatoncat > 04-04-2023, 09:01 PM
(04-04-2023, 07:43 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Crossing paths at the Beromünster monastery, here is their page.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
It says:"The canons do not belong to any order..."
How did that work?
I don't know, but that is the practice after 1806. It seems to be a non-denominational now. This has more information: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: Yet another solution: The Voynich Silenen Comedy
Gregor Bernhart-Koenigstein > 26-04-2023, 02:16 AM
Hello everybody! Here speaks the author of the „Voynich Silenen Comedy“.
I am much surprised, that a lot of main topics of the older Voynich discussion have not been mentioned until now in this forum.
What‘s about the other marginalia. - Not only the clearly discoverd „Brugg“ proving the Habsburg memory by the Silenen Family (as like Sempach)
but also „Melker Russ“ as the mentioned main chronist as like the several chronicals of Diebold Schilling (Spiez - Berner), further the Marginalia of the cloister Saint Maurice and the „Abtei Wallis“ at the last page,
Best regards,
Gregor Bernhart-Koenigstein -
RE: Yet another solution: The Voynich Silenen Comedy
Gregor Bernhart-Koenigstein > 26-04-2023, 03:35 AM
Message to the World!
In Austria we are very strongly influenced in our mystical thinking by the anthroposophist Rudolf Steiner.
He emphasizes that there is also a "mind's eye" as a source of knowledge.
In Vienna, near where I live, in the middle of the "Swiss Park" - so named after aid deliveries from Switzerland after the First World War - is the large monument to Rudolf Steiner.
It helped me get my mind's eye on Switzerland, and so I was able to recognize a part of the Voynich code years ago, which I was only able to interpret and prove it later. I would like to announce this part here as the true code for the first time in the world:
A sign of the cross appeared to me as a Voynich code:
"In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, Amen!"
Gregor Bernhart-Königstein, Vienna, April 2023 -
RE: Yet another solution: The Voynich Silenen Comedy
Koen G > 26-04-2023, 07:12 AM
None of that sounds very scientific to be honest. -
RE: Yet another solution: The Voynich Silenen Comedy
hatoncat > 26-04-2023, 02:13 PM
(26-04-2023, 07:12 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.None of that sounds very scientific to be honest.
That was my first impression, but I referred to Dr. Bernhart-Konigstein's PDF where he mentions those pages: they are You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (Melchior Russ) (p.59 in PDF) and 116v- Maurix, Morix, and Abtry Valsch (St. Maurice Abbey) (p.58 in PDF)
I also took screenshots of the closeups of those sections: the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I am just the AV guy; I provide the closeups of his references- I'll let others verify.
It appears Valsch is an alternate spelling of Wallis- older German perhaps. or Valais? (French Valais is the same as German Wallis) -
RE: Yet another solution: The Voynich Silenen Comedy
MarcoP > 26-04-2023, 05:30 PM
(26-04-2023, 02:13 PM)hatoncat Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(26-04-2023, 07:12 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.None of that sounds very scientific to be honest.
That was my first impression, but I referred to Dr. Bernhart-Konigstein's PDF where he mentions those pages: they are You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (Melchior Russ) (p.59 in PDF) and 116v- Maurix, Morix, and Abtry Valsch (St. Maurice Abbey) (p.58 in PDF)
I also took screenshots of the closeups of those sections: the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I am just the AV guy; I provide the closeups of his references- I'll let others verify.
The theory is terrible, but what is peculiarly unscientific and off-topic is that the author has visions of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or whatever. I guess Koen was referring to that.
Though this is well known to everybody but the author of the stuff discussed here, I will elaborate on what you mentioned above: the supposed "Prug" is the Latin word "primus" (first) that marks the end of the first quire. Similar marks appear at the end of the other quires. The subject has been discussed many times, e.g. by Thomas Sauvaget (2012) here:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
This image compares numerals (primus, secundus, tertius, quartus - first, second, third, fourth) from Voynich quires, the Sang 839 ms discussed by Sauvaget and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.-13v.
Possibly what this theory does to 116v is even more embarrassing. We all know that these lines cannot be read with certainty, so not much can be deduced from them. In this post I collected readings of that page by four different researchers:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The first two Latin alphabet words of the fourth line are read:
Vogt: '[r,u,v]alscn [u,v,r]brey'
Palmer: 'valoc* vhren'
Stolfi: 'valden ubrey'
Albus: 'palsen pbrey'
"valsch" for the first word can possibly be almost conceivable. A first problem is the mid-word 8-shaped 's'. A much bigger problem is the final 'h' . This script has consistent looped ascenders - see 'h' at the end of this same line, or in "michiton".
Reading the second word as "abtey" requires an act of voluntary blindness. The first character is similar to the first character or the previous word, so it can be u,v,p...maybe 'r'. It certainly is not an 'a'. Check the second character of the first word, or the several clear 'a's in lines 2 and 3. 'b' makes sense. The third and fourth letters are clearly readable as "re", basically everybody agrees on that.
'y' at the end is possible, but the final descender is more common in word-final 'n'. Compare the final -en with "Parisien"(sis) from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..