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Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl
- Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl
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RE: Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl
Koen G > 14-09-2023, 09:42 AM
(14-09-2023, 09:34 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.For you it may come from America, but the experts will no longer consider it. And not only because of the C-14 test, that's just the end point.
Basically this. Saying the VM was made in the Americas is kind of like saying the Romans built the Parthenon of Athens. It's an absurd claim, not supported by any real evidence. But guess what: if someone has gotten to the point where they have convinced themselves that the Romans built the Parthenon, then you can argue with them all day long, but you won't get any closer to a resolution. It's a hole they'll have to climb out of by themselves, eventually. -
RE: Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl
Aga Tentakulus > 14-09-2023, 09:55 AM
And while I'm at it, even if it doesn't belong here. Book of natures volume 1. print from 1536. image.
We are looking for a drawing from the original or an early copy of the book. ca. 1350.
Because that's what we see as the image. A brain. (not an armadillo or golden fleece).
This is based on the time of the first public autopsy (approved by the Pope) ca. 1299. Taught at universities north of the Alps after 1400.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl
Aga Tentakulus > 14-09-2023, 10:11 AM
@Koen
Let's compromise. The Romans built the Pantheon in Rome and the Greek Pantheon served as a model...
That's exactly how the Roman model stood for the Pantheon in Constantinople. Today Haga Sophia.
Question: Is it called the Pantheon or the Pantheon?
Frage: Heisst es der oder das Pantheon? -
RE: Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl
nablator > 14-09-2023, 12:01 PM
(14-09-2023, 07:39 AM)Jacinto Gimenez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.with my cypher table I decypher the first 10 pages completely and in a coherent way.
Your cipher table is missing a lot of frequent Nahuatl sounds/syllabs.
- How would you convert the frequent "mo", "mi", "ti", "te", "po", "ç", "tz", etc. to Voynichese?
- If they are missing in your version of Nahuatl, why?
- How can frequent "x" and "to" be mapped to rare glyphs?
I don't recognize the glyph for "ch", they look like o to me on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in both of your "patlache". The first is cFhol, the second is pShol.
From the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
A page of the Libellus illustrating the tlahçolteoçacatl, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. plants.
- How would you write the frequent "catl", "cotl" that are not in your table?
- The frequent "oni" is dyi according to your table, but it never occurs in the VMs.
You need to be a lot more specific about your translation, which dictionary you are using, which modifications you have done in order to match existing words. -
RE: Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl
Jacinto Gimenez > 15-09-2023, 12:17 PM
I wait impatiently for an AI to crack the code and see what the so-called "experts" then have to say. -
RE: Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl
nablator > 15-09-2023, 01:20 PM
(15-09-2023, 12:17 PM)Jacinto Gimenez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I wait impatiently for an AI to crack the code and see what the so-called "experts" then have to say.
Last time was You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. I'm sure that there is a bright future for AI-interpreted word salad.
By the way I've read that ChatGPT's Nahuatl is You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
The problem is that people don't want to study the VMs, they want to crack it. It will get them nowhere. -
RE: Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl
ReneZ > 15-09-2023, 03:36 PM
(14-09-2023, 07:39 AM)Jacinto Gimenez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(13-09-2023, 06:53 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Do Tucker/Yanick and you come up with he same list of meso-American plants, or are they different.
If they are different, then that is a huge problem.
The cypher table used in 2018 by tucker & janick is diferent to mine, they found "some" words that can match with plants, but very frequent is something like glossolalia of the baby-speech "lalala balala malalaba"- type. This's is not my case, with my cypher table I decypher the first 10 pages completely and in a coherent way.
That isn't really an answer to my question, but perhaps I did not phrase it accurately enough.
Tucker/Janick identify the herbs as Meso-American based on the drawings. Do you as well? If so, and the ID's are different, then there is a serious problem.
Alternatively, if you identify them based on your own proposed text translation, then we have another problem... -
RE: Voynich revealed, diary of a Nahuatl
asteckley > 21-09-2023, 03:36 AM
(08-09-2023, 07:04 AM)Jacinto Gimenez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.what is wrong with this thinking process?
The experts performed the C14 test on the "vellum". The vellum is not paper, it is the skin of a dead animal, properly tanned and smoothed. Dating tells us when the ram/sheep/cow from which the skin was taken was born, but it tells us nothing about when someone wrote on that skin.Think: Years of the animal's life + Years the skin spent in the tanner's workshop until it was sold + Years the skin spent in the bookbinding workshops + Years the "virgin" manuscript spent in the friars' library storerooms + Years of travel from Europe to America + Years in the destiny depository .... Shall we continue? If we apply a little logic, that adds up to many years, I would say about 90 years more.
I'm afraid that the first component of your think sequence is incorrect -- C14 will date from the point of the animal's death. On the rest of your "Years" arguments, there's just no basis to think every one of them occurred, let alone that they would each take many years. That being said, it's not implausible that there was some length of time between the animal's death and the application of ink to vellum. I think we should lean heavily on experts in historical manuscripts and the practices of those times to explain what maximum time is feasible (and what amount of time was most likely). Your task would then be to build a case that the 90+ years, although unlikely, is still not beyond reasonable doubt.
Similar is the requirement for other aspects of your case. One needs to show not just that there are some loose connections, but that there is evidence that supports that the connection is designed (i.e. intentional) beyond a reasonable doubt.
I would challenge you to do the following. (In fact I think it is necessary, if you wish to be convincing). Show several pages of the manuscript with the original Voynichese mapped to your phonemes (at the individual symbol level), then mapped to Nahuatl (at the word level), then to English (at clause or sentence level). Ideally, these would be shown line-by-line with the four versions stacked.
This will either show strong evidence for your hypothesis, or else it will make it obvious to both yourself and others that it has no substance.