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The Rosettes Page - March 2024
- The Rosettes Page - March 2024
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RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024
pjburkshire > 12-04-2024, 07:15 PM
(12-04-2024, 06:06 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What do you have to say about the VMs cosmos? Without the planetary spheres and the heavenly realms, the VMs cosmos is clearly not up to either the scientific or religious standards of other cosmic diagrams before 1450.
Which pages do you include as "cosmos"? -
RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024
R. Sale > 13-04-2024, 03:49 AM
The cosmos (f68v3) is part of the cosmic section of the VMs. -
RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024
pjburkshire > 13-04-2024, 08:29 AM
f67r1 - Probably the Sun with 12 divisions of the year. The 12 divisions could be the 12 calendar months, the typical 12 (12.38) lunar cycles of a year, the 12 traditional Zodiac signs, or something else.
f67r2 - The year with 12 divisions. The 12 divisions could be the 12 calendar months, the typical 12 (12.38) lunar cycles of a year, the 12 traditional Zodiac signs, or something else.
f67v2 - Some type of cycle with four divisions. What the 4 divisions are is not clear. Could be the four seasons, the four elements, the four cardinal directions, or something else.
f67v1 - The Sun (representing Heaven) with pre-Ensouled souls sorted by unknown categories.
f68r1, f68r2, f68r3 - Assigning a pre-Ensouled soul to a father.
f68v3, f68v2, f68v1 - Pre-Ensouled souls sorted by social class; Nobles, Commoners, Clergy.
f69r, f69v, f70r1, f70r2 - Ensouled soul in the womb.
f70v2 through You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - Traditional Zodiac signs with nymphs.
Quire 13 - Pregnancy
f85r2 - Life
f86v4 - Death
the Rosettes page:
center circle: Heaven with the light of God powering the universe
center top: Element Air
center left: Element Fire
center right: Element Water
center bottom: Element Earth
top right: Nobles
bottom left: Clergy
bottom right: Commoners
f86v3 - Comments on the male/female relationship -
RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024
Barbrey > 05-08-2024, 03:32 AM
I have my own ideas on the Rosette page similar to but nowhere near identical to anyone else’s. The one thing I think should be asked of everyone generating ideas on the details of the page is what is its purpose or function in context with what you think the purpose of the VMS is as a whole. You’ve studied many of the details:what are your hypothesis and associated research questions? Even in the humanities, we have this process!
For instance, I believe,as do many others, that the VMS is most likely a pharmaceutical, so I’ll use this as an example. If so, what would this page, almost triple the size,intricately detailed, and meant to be seen or studied in toto, most likely be contributing to the work as a whole? The most obvious,is that it provides an overall rationale for how and why its remedies work.Perhaps It’s an index that names the various parts of the work, and the processes between thm Perhaps a worldview, that illustrates the deeper processes, including spiritual ones,that make these remedies effective. Moreover, perhaps it’s a mnemonic crib to help memorize a complicated system For my part,I hypothesize it’s all of these and more.
I wasn’t able to attend the Zoom today but I’m looking forward to Michelle and Charles’ presentation in video, thanks to Koen. I hope they address the importance of the Rosette to the other parts of the text. -
RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024
Mark Knowles > 18-11-2024, 04:23 PM
I have long been mystified by those who do not think the Rosettes folio is map. I tend to put that down to a lack of study of the details of the page and so a superficial overview. As from my experience, chatting with people about this here and elsewhere, so many people ignore and haven't thought about so many details of the page that I have considered.
There seems to be a lot of attention given to the overall layout of 9 large circles in a 3 by 3 arrangement as being unobserved in other maps, that we know of, and therefore the page not constituting a map. However there is much less attention to the numerous lower level details that I have referred to and described elsewhere, which I believe testify to it being a map. So, I ascribe the view that it is not a map to a lack of study or familarity with the page. Many people don't get much further than the overall layout of 9 nine circles in their study of the page.
I have spent more time studying this page in more detail than anyone who existence I am aware of; I don't mean that as a boast, but almost certainly as an observation. And I have confidence that I could reproduce the page from memory much better than anyone. This means that I am very conscious of the details in the page and have given them a lot of thought. So much so that writing up my full complete analysis of this page has always seemed very time consuming and daunting; however I have shared before on this forum an annotated image of the page showing my identifications.
I think an important example of features of this page that support the "map" interpretation and are generally almost completely ignored are the causeways, so I have started a thread on the subject of the Rosettes causeways. -
RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024
Mark Knowles > 18-11-2024, 05:33 PM
Perhaps, the way that I refer to the Rosettes page as a map has caused some confusion. I tend to now, more precisely, to describe it as a "map of a journey" as I don't view some parts of the page as being exactly part of the map. For example, I wouldn't really describe the central rosette as being part of the map, but rather part of the overall theme of the page as I have made clear in my annotated image of the page. Nevertheless, I think on balance it makes sense to describe the page as a whole as a map as it was not unusual for maps of that period or from other periods to contain non-map like aspects within them. And I think that calling it a map makes clear the essential core function of the page. -
RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024
Mark Knowles > 18-11-2024, 06:01 PM
What originally attracted me to research the Voynich was this page and without it I doubt that I would have been interested in Voynich research. I felt that if the page was a map then discovering where it is a map of could greatly help Voynich research. I also thought it likely that if it was a map then it would be possible to identify the place in the map where the author was from. In fact, slightly to my surprise, my interpretation of the page lead me very specifically to conclude that the author was from the Abbey of Saints Nazzaro and Celso by the Sesia River. And further research into this page lead me to the opinion that the author was Abbot Antonio Barbavara who was the Abbot from 1428 to 1469 and also by far the important Abbot in the Abbey's history as well as having interests consistent with the themes found in the Voynich manuscript. And subsequent research lead me to suspect the involvement of his brothers Francesco Barbavara and Marcolino Barbavara, who much later research by myself has identified as writing and creating the most advanced ciphers in the world at that time that we know of, although unfortunately so much of the early 15th record of Milanese ciphers was destroyed in a fire in Milan in 1447 and what remains only lies in archives outside of Milan. -
RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024
Aga Tentakulus > 18-11-2024, 08:02 PM
Personally, I don't expect a map. Not even from a journey. Simply because the right-hand side of the drawing is too different from the left-hand side. I don't even need to talk about the centre.
Nevertheless, I assume that the illustrator has seen everything somewhere. And if he hasn't travelled, then everything must be true to the place. So pictures show that everything can be done in one place.
The wall doesn't have to be in Bellinzona. Yellow roofs have also been drawn elsewhere. The forecourt to the gate also appears in other paintings. A city gate would also be present. There are plenty of barriers. Crowns and other references in the book fit just as well.
Even how to read something correctly can be deduced from the surroundings.
Just no map for me, but plenty of clues. -
RE: The Rosettes Page - March 2024
Mark Knowles > 18-11-2024, 08:47 PM