• Options
• Login
• Desktop Style

Eagle root

• Index

  • The Voynich Ninja
  • Voynich Research
  • Imagery
  • Eagle root
• Eagle root

• Eagle root

  EllieV > 09-03-2016, 06:08 PM

  I made some speculations about the eagle root on fol. 46v here
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  D'Imperio describes it as "a bird with spread wings: an eagle!" in An Elegant Enigma. I have the plant id as costmary (Frauenminze) - in the old herbals we see it as the herb of Virgin Mary. I found couple of examples of Mary mixed with eagle with spread wings. I was wondering if somebody knows by chance any similar examples from early 15th century.
  Thanks in advance.

• RE: Eagle root

  -JKP- > 09-03-2016, 06:32 PM

  (09-03-2016, 06:08 PM)EllieV Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I made some speculations about the eagle root on fol. 46v here
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  D'Imperio describes it as "a bird with spread wings: an eagle!" in An Elegant Enigma. I have the plant id as  costmary (Frauenminze) - in the old herbals we see it as the herb of Virgin Mary. I found couple of examples of Mary mixed with eagle with spread wings. I was wondering if somebody knows by chance any similar examples from early 15th century.
  Thanks in advance.

  
  Ellie, here's something to keep in mind while looking for older references than the ones you've found so far...
  
  In the process of converting Pagans to Christians, it didn't work too well to completely supplant Pagan beliefs, so some of them were mutated to something similar.
  
  For example, many of the early references to Venus and Athena were changed to Virgin Mary. If you run out of Mary references at a certain time period, try the older names of goddesses and nymphs. Sometimes the origins are revealed in their names.
  
  As a more specific example, maidenhair fern is included in many of the old herbals as a medicinal plant and goes by the name capillus-veneris (now known as Adiantum capillus-veneris), with the last part referring to Venus, but the "maiden" inference was later Christinaized and promoted as Virgin Mary. In Armenia, a double-headed eagle was the symbol for Venus. Jupiter was also represented by an eagle.
  

  ---

  Here's a further thought, something I just remembered,
  
  Costmary was said by Culpeper as being under the sign of Jupiter. The symbol for Jupiter (at least one of the more common ones) was the eagle. Whether Culpeper was asserting this based on older references, I don't know. I haven't had time to follow it up.
  
  Also, if I remember correctly, the older Latin and Italian names were costus and costo and the plant comes from the eastern Mediterranean, so there would be additional older names from that area.
  
  
  If you can find older references that may have been used by Culpeper, you may find the connection between Jupiter (Eagle) and costus.

• RE: Eagle root

  Koen G > 09-03-2016, 07:43 PM

  Ellie
  
  As a fellow root mnemonic enthusiast, I must say one of the images you found (the one with the three-headed knight) is a pretty good match. I wonder if that image was based on an older one. Seeing this, I'd almost say that it must be.
  
  JKP might be looking in the right direction with the Jupiter-eagle thing. Let me look around a bit as well.

• RE: Eagle root

  EllieV > 09-03-2016, 07:58 PM

  (09-03-2016, 07:43 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Ellie
  
  As a fellow root mnemonic enthusiast, I must say one of the images you found (the one with the three-headed knight) is a pretty good match. I wonder if that image was based on an older one. Seeing this, I'd almost say that it must be.
  
  JKP might be looking in the right direction with the Jupiter-eagle thing. Let me look around a bit as well.

  
  Thanks JKP and Koen, the Jupiter- eagle connection is very interesting.

• RE: Eagle root

  Koen G > 09-03-2016, 08:38 PM

  It all seems to go back to the story of Zeus turning himself into an eagle to kidnap Ganymede. But that doesn't help much.
  
  There's one thing thing that definitely should be explained though: those two or three little "tentacles" at the base of the leaves. It's always the question whether they are botanical or mnemonic - but they seem like a part that shouldn't be overlooked.

• RE: Eagle root

  -JKP- > 09-03-2016, 10:08 PM

  (09-03-2016, 08:38 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
  
  There's one thing thing that definitely should be explained though: those two or three little "tentacles" at the base of the leaves. It's always the question whether they are botanical or mnemonic - but they seem like a part that shouldn't be overlooked.

  
  No costmary leaf that I've seen has those extra tails, and I too was wondering if it was a symbolic addition related to the root or some other aspect of the plant.

• RE: Eagle root

  MarcoP > 10-03-2016, 10:35 AM

  Hi Ellie,
  thank you for the interesting images!
  
  My impression is that most of them are not related with Mary. Nudity is certainly incompatible with the iconography of Mary.
  
  In particular, this is the description of the 1491 Vision given You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
  
  Afterwards, a vision of a three-headed knight in full armour appeared in the heavens at Mount Farsso for 24 hours without interruption. The knight’s three heads resembled three heavenly bodies, the sun, moon and morning star, while in his hands he held a beautiful young virgin with braided hair, the legs and paws of a lion, yellow eagle’s wings and a forked tail. The two parts of her tail were wrapped around the knight’s legs, and she held in her paws two red escutcheons, each decorated with a white letter ‘W’.
  
  The alchemical track seems promising to me, also with reference to the symbolic roots found in "alchemical herbals" (but I am certainly biased by my interest in the subject). I will see if I can find anything to add to the great images you posted.

• RE: Eagle root

  david > 10-03-2016, 01:53 PM

  Quote:Nudity is certainly incompatible with the iconography of Mary.

  
  Actually, pre 16th century, Mary was often depicted topless, suckling Jesus or humanity. She was also often depicted squirting breast milk as a sign of God's love towards humanity - the motif of "Maria Lactans" as it is known.

• RE: Eagle root

  Koen G > 10-03-2016, 02:12 PM

  I hope you all brought your tinfoil caps.
  
  I found David's remark about Maria lactans interesting, so I did a little googling.
  
  First of all, it seems clear that taboos were different in those days.
  
  
  
  Then I came across this very interesting image of "Isis lactans", a possible precursor for the Maria lactans type:
  
  
  
  Aaand how was Isis often portrayed? Right, with wings spread.
  
  
  
  Isn't it lovely how imagery crosses cultures and can easily send you in a loop through space and time?
  Now this is the moment when you put on your tinfoil caps. Remember when I said those two tails on the leaf had to be explained either through botanical or mnemonic arguments? Look at what Isis has on her head.
  

• RE: Eagle root

  MarcoP > 10-03-2016, 02:28 PM

  (10-03-2016, 01:53 PM)david Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  Quote:Nudity is certainly incompatible with the iconography of Mary.

  
  Actually, pre 16th century, Mary was often depicted topless, suckling Jesus or humanity. She was also often depicted squirting breast milk as a sign of God's love towards humanity - the motif of "Maria Lactans" as it is known.

  
  I am sorry, I have been unclear. I intended You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as "the state of wearing no clothing". 
  
  Also, my comment was about the images posted by Ellie You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. I don't think they can represent Mary, but of course others are welcome to have different opinions!
• Next Oldest Next Newest