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• RE: The "4 Ages of Man" Folio

  -JKP- > 08-05-2017, 09:37 AM

  Interestingly, in ancient times, there were three main Pagan seasonal harvest festivals and three main Jewish ones.
  
  
  I suspect the distinction between the Pagan and Jewish celebrations was less in the middle ages than they are now. In local cultures, Christian customs did not become widespread until after the 9th century. Many Pagan customs (especially the winter solstice festivals) were morphed into Christian customs to promote conversion to Christianity. In some areas (e.g., Basque), Pagan customs survived much longer and are still practiced today.
  
  
  So... these harvest festivals might be of interest, but there were usually three, not four, so there may not be a direct correspondence.
  
  Something I noticed when studying clothing from the 14th and 15th centuries is that the wider and longer the sleeves and robes, usually the more important the person. More fabric was associated with people of wealth and status. It might provide some clues to the well-robed androgynous figure with the chalice and stingy things that resemble grain.

• RE: The "4 Ages of Man" Folio

  Diane > 08-05-2017, 01:00 PM

  -JKP-
  You speak for me here...
  

  Quote:I wanted to learn the VMS iconography first and then look at individual plant IDs and there are many completely accurate naturalistic plants in the manuscript, regardless of what people say. Even the ones that are somewhat stylized do it in a rational and mostly consistent way.

  
  
  Koen,
  I think - and I've said, actually - that the emblems of Sukkot are one reading for the figure which some describe as holding a snowball etc.
  
  As I see it, too, we have a non-standard form for the lulav in the botanical section - fol. 19r.  That is, the formation of the base agrees with imagery from c.1stC AD, and the other elements agree, but where one would expect the citron one has a flower like the 'peacock' flower.  I posited (given that a majority of the plants are  not found in the Mediterranean, where citrus medicus is, that this was another, or older, custom in regions where c.medicus was unavailable.  These days, with planes and refrigeration, it's not a problem. 
  
  As it happens, I've just got hold of an article which speaks of various alternatives to c.medicus that are known to have been used. They include, interestingly, the Buddha hand citron.
  
  As to beaks for a Jews' nose.  As far as I know that was primarily a German habit, though I haven't made a study of it. The famous Haggadah also shows that Jews themselves might avoid representing the human face by showing bird-heads.  Not a common habit.  In France and England especially, the image of an owl with human expressions, or performing human actions, was meant to be read as a reference to Jews.  Not for nice reasons, of course.

• RE: The "4 Ages of Man" Folio

  Koen G > 08-05-2017, 01:11 PM

  What I find strange is that the image I came across is supposed to be from "a Hebrew calendar" aimed at Jews, about a Jewish holiday. And still he's shown with what I can only interpret as a stereotypical face

• RE: The "4 Ages of Man" Folio

  bi3mw > 08-05-2017, 02:47 PM

  @Koen:
  The illustration is from the "Leipzig Mahzor manuscript", Ms V 1102, 1320.
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is another miniature from this manuscript and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are some pages. - I'm still searching...
  
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.'s a brief chapter on the manuscript. Among other things, a comparison with another manuscript showing the "real" birdheads is made. A comparable MS is also mentioned:
  
  Dresden Mahzor Ms. A46a , 1290  It can be viewed You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ( both volumes ).

• RE: The "4 Ages of Man" Folio

  Koen G > 08-05-2017, 03:55 PM

  Awesome, well found. So it is really from a Hebrew manuscript. And all faces are drawn like that, as if they are all having a really bad day..

• RE: The "4 Ages of Man" Folio

  -JKP- > 09-05-2017, 12:30 AM

  There were certain prohibitions, in Jewish culture, against representing the human form, which is why so many "hybrids" are found in Jewish manuscripts and manuscripts embellished by Jewish illuminators.
  
  The idea is to avoid representations of the human form that might imply idolatry.

• RE: The "4 Ages of Man" Folio

  coded > 09-05-2017, 01:41 AM

  I have a humble request to make a donation Sirs.  I have an observation that the four ages of man is a vaulted ceiling.  
  
  
  
  
  

• RE: The "4 Ages of Man" Folio

  -JKP- > 09-05-2017, 02:11 AM

  (09-05-2017, 01:41 AM)coded Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have a humble request to make a donation Sirs.  I have an observation that the four ages of man is a vaulted ceiling.  

  
  
  Yes, it might be based on that shape/idea.

• RE: The "4 Ages of Man" Folio

  coded > 12-05-2017, 06:40 AM

  There are to many similarities here in the vaulted ceiling of the Ducal Palace for the four ages of man,so it should be examined by Voynich scholars.  I count five iconic signatures related to each photo.
  
  1) Sun , 2. embellished outer blue
  3) man pointing to the right
  4) Grappling hook
  5) bulbous strange object
  
  

• RE: The "4 Ages of Man" Folio

  bi3mw > 22-05-2023, 05:09 PM

  Updated link:
  
  Dresden Mahzor Ms. A46a , 1290  It can be viewed You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ( both volumes ).
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