Following some interesting stuff mentioned in relation to Diebold Lauber , 
I just randomly browsed  the Pal Lat 1370 and was wondering how the scribe makes a reference in the text towards the roundels?

Since there is only a small page number, on the right top,  I assume that was written later.

take for example 

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If he writes something about the the zodiacs and calculations in relation to the tables and astrological explanation, how would the scribe make a reference to the appropriate drawing?

(extra image: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)

added: a fun fact in Hongarian one would write for Page 53 -> 53 oldal

Armadillo is easily dismissed with scales instead of bands. Do we have an alternate ID for their sunflower?

I summarized my thoughts and findings about this matter in a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., but it's easier to discuss on the forum. In the blog I argue that the VM Gemini find their closest parallels in images of medieval weddings/betrothals. 

The two best images I found so far are the following:

An image from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. "Hartlieb, Johannes: Das buoch Ouidy von der liebe zu erwerben. auch die liebe zeuerschmehen", Augsburg, 1482. It is the best parallel for the pose and reveals that we are looking at two simultaneous wedding rituals: the man clasps the woman's hand and at the same time puts a ring on her free hand, resulting in crossed arms.




The second is from a manuscript from Diebold Lauber's studio. It’s an illustration of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. work Wilhelm von Orlens.



I will eat a turban if the man in this image is not somehow related to the VM Gemini.



Now I don't know yet where to look next. There are tons of manuscripts which use the same type of imagery, but it will take time and effort to find them and go through them. Any ideas?

René, is there any information on earlier members of Iohannes Marci's family (father, grandfather, uncles)?

There is a notation top-right (possibly an ex libris) at the end of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:



A[nn]o 1561 Ad 18 octobre
in ?p g? hispurg (hisburg)  (might the third character be c-tail?)
R I D G? (N D G?)
Georgius Marcius


Handwritten manuscripts were on the wane in the 16th century, with mass-produced books quickly replacing them, so they tended to stay in the small circles of people who could afford them. The CLM 1111 is from the Alsace, but ended up in the Munich library, so may have moved around.

I thought you might like to take a look in case there's a possible connection Between George Marci and Iohannes Marcus Marci.


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Also, on a paleographical note... Note the looong serif on the "i" on the second and fourth lines. This is an uncommon way to write "i" (I have to really search to find examples) and matches the "i" in "chiton" "imiltos" "nim" and (to some extent) "mich" on 116v.

Also, the small looped "n" is also uncommon and close to the "n" in "nim".

Note also the 3rd character in the 2nd row. It's probably not "r" (r wasn't written this way unless it had a tail and this is not a tail), it's probably an open-top "p" (although I'm not completely sure) and might be the same long-serif open-top "p" that is above "ven mus mel".

It's not the same handwriting as the 116v marginalia, and one can see the evolution from Gothic to Humanist text (the ascender loops are gone, as gradually occurred in the 16th century), but there are enough similarities that MAYBE George Marci learned to write in the same region as the 116v marginalia writer.

During the last hour or so I have grown convinced that certain images from the Zodiac section have been borrowed from one or more popular books on courtly love, correct nobility behavior and so on. I shared my latest finds in other threads, and here's another one. I'm actually really tired and I should go to bed, but I just need to post one more thing

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a 2nd half 15thC version of the only preserved work by Italian poet You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. He wrote it in the early 13th century in Middle High German; "The text is aimed at young nobles lecturing on courtesy, courtly love (minne), and chivalry, based on contemporary scholastic works on ethics, philosophy, and the liberal arts. The adoption of (Bavarian) Middle High German by a non-native speaker is a valuable contemporary source for linguistic researchers."

I found You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in particular interesting in this MS.

   

There's also an unusual circle on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (way to transfer head lice).

   

I noticed You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. has a rather unusual layout in that the text does not run on till the right margin, making it look like some kind of poem. Might this be because the parchment in this area was found unsuitable as a writing surface? There does appear to be some damage (edge of skin?) and the reverse You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. also shows a slight bend in the text margin at this location, though not nearly as much. The images don't seem to care.

   

There's a lot going on on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. . The bottom marginalia with the lying figure (mus del). A column of words seemingly added in the margin. But in between these words and the main text there's another row of what looks like single glyphs. I've cut the ribbon for easier viewing:

   

This row includes mostly single EVA glyphs, but also two [sh] and an [air] cluster.

Now for the sake of argument, let's assume two things (which are definitely not certain):

1) This was written by someone "in the know", not some would-be decipherer.
2) They are indeed considered single glyphs

...then this means we should alter the input of our statistical experiments. Things like air and sh should be transcribed as single characters.

At least that would be the case if those two conditions were certainly met. Has this ever been studied?

I just made a new thread to gather all counts of things: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Here any additions can be suggested. Count VViews, please make abundant use of your editing rights here, I must have forgotten quite a bit of things we've counted before.

Did we ever reach a definite count of the total number of human figures?

This first post will be updated with various counts of things, presented with a link to the source. For any corrections or additions, see the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

Text

• Number of characters: 160.000 to 165.000 (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
  
• Number of words: 37.000 to 39.000 (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
  
• Number of different words: 9.000 to 10.000 (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
  

• Human figures in Q13: 231 (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
  
• Human figures in "Zodiac section": 303 (299 nymphs + 4 central figures) (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
  
• Figures wearing clothes (besides headgear): 50 (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
  
• Number of visible shoes: 8 (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
  

• Number of large-plant drawings: 134, divided over 124 pages with a single plant and 5 pages with a pair (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
  
• There are 45 containers in the small-plants section. Apart from containers, there are 241 other items (plants, roots, one cube...) (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
  

• Stars in the margins of Q20: 324, of which 163 have red paint. (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
  
• Number of stars in f68r1: 29 (all labeled) 
  
• Number of stars in f68r2: 59, of those 24 are labeled, 12 unlabeled, plus the additional outer circle of 23 unlabeled stars. (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
  

In medieval manuscripts, does word-splitting across lines occur?
For example, I want to write the word abracadabra but run out of space on the current line and thus I split it into abra(linebreak)cadabra. Is this the way it's done or is this being taken care of in some other fashion?
Thanks in advance