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Can VM be written in vowelless Latin?
- Can VM be written in vowelless Latin?
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RE: Can VM be written in vowelless Latin?
R. Sale > 19-06-2023, 01:10 AM
I believe I am replying to the last sentence in the post just prior to mine.
However, if the author proposes a chorus of satyrs, I would counter with sylphs. -
RE: Can VM be written in vowelless Latin?
mrdayoung > 20-06-2023, 01:11 PM
(16-09-2016, 07:27 PM)Emma May Smith Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(16-09-2016, 07:12 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.3) o is the most obvious one for me. v and b are undoubtedly related, u and y go with them. I guess (don't laugh) that [font=Eva]o comes from Greek omega and [/font]is mostly pronounced [w]. So oror from last page may be something like [warwarum]. c is connected to g from one side, and to t from another. f-ph-p is yet another chain. If it's really Latin and daiin is most frequent word then d is obviously l. r, l appear among most frequent endings. Difficult to imagine r to be other letter than r, so l is obviously m/n. And yes, m and n go together in all abbreviations I've seen. For k I had a choice between d and r and even dr. When d translations are more adequate. What I really like in this key is that it is absolutely natural and allow to find translation for most of words.
I still don't know how you reached the value for each character.
It seems as though some values were proposed based on the shape of the Voynich character and its similarity to existing scripts: so [o] and [r] are based on what they look like in Greek and Latin respectively.
Otherwise they were based on the output of the text once the value was applied: [daiin] should be 'illi' because the language is Latin and you were seeking a frequent word.
Can you tell me how you discovered the text was in Latin?
It is indeed in Latin, Vulgar Latin or proto romantic - all have the same roots to work from and I have found most of the words are easily translated. Without having seen this forum prior, I came to the same conclusion using Occam's Razor. That and I also tried other languages prior to understanding the true history of the alphabet system we use today and letters we eliminated needlessly or added for ease. Once I started to understand the true history of Alphabets, whether is be one I use or one someone else uses...it helped rule out many languages. The main issue now is deciphering a few of the letters, are they contractions and abbreviations? Are they single letters? Can they be verified in multiple sections of the manuscript? Another issue is that it was written by 4 or 5 hands, that does help narrow down who made the manuscript, but it does not help when 1 hand our of the 5 used certain characters that the others did not use (though I think I have figured out what some of those are)
Most of the letter translations you have used are correct, but I have a different theory and some of them, and by using my choices and without forcing anything, I have translated the following on a latter folio, which looks to be one of the ones out of place as per Yale professors and my translation so far.
"in proportion to the piety of this one shall I come forth, O that I shall be the messenger of these things"
I am sure this is not 100% but for what I was translating specifically it matched the type of response I would have expected.
The root language is Latin, one form or another. I often wonder if it is Occitan, Emilian-Romagnol or another endangered language. I do think the absolute is the primary root is Latin, and then it breaks out from there.
Personally, I think this is a simple garter belt book that was transcribed from other language books. It is why it is so hard to decipher. There is some Arabic transcriptions, some Greek, some Old Latin. It is also like the world's worst phone game. The pictures of the plants are some of the worst ever. It is obvious, the scribes were not artists. I was able to figure out one plant and I was...interesting, I can see it...but at the same time I thought, "Did a 6 year old draw this?" -
RE: Can VM be written in vowelless Latin?
farmerjohn > 05-05-2024, 05:24 PM
Some minor updates to the last paper -
RE: Can VM be written in vowelless Latin?
dfs346 > 06-05-2024, 08:47 AM
Updated thoughts on unabbreviated Latin as a precursor language of the Voynich manuscript (and the need to explore abbreviated Latin).
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The most common letters in the LatinISE medieval subcorpus and in Dante’s “Monarchia”; and the most common glyphs in my v103 and v171 transliterations of the Voynich manuscript. Author’s analysis. -
RE: Can VM be written in vowelless Latin?
dfs346 > 17-05-2024, 07:04 PM
Thoughts on how the scribes of the Voynich manuscript, if working from precursor documents in Latin, might have represented the Latin bigram "qu".
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Voynich manuscript, v101④ transliteration, main thematic sections: frequencies of selected glyphs with complex or bifurcate quill strokes. Author’s analysis. -
RE: Can VM be written in vowelless Latin?
farmerjohn > 23-05-2024, 10:04 AM
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RE: Can VM be written in vowelless Latin?
Rustandi > 26-05-2024, 01:02 AM
Just want to share my opinion. My approach is different than what we have here, but i also think that this manuscript used latin language. So, at first i tried to used picture 1 to find latin word, because this symbols one of the most easy to deciphered. Then i found the word arar, but when i tried to put this word into other combination such as in picture 2 and so on, i could not find the word.
Then i noticed that in the manuscript there are words that end with this -ccccg, -cccg, -ccg, -cg. I know that there is no latin word end with four consecutive same vowels, but there are words with four consecutive different vowels.
So, when i applied this into the symbols, i found many words. I collected the words ( especially the consonants ) and eliminated the consonants based on the combination of the symbols.
As a result i found the cipher in picture below.
Hopefully this finding could be usefull for everyone here. Thanks -
RE: Can VM be written in vowelless Latin?
farmerjohn > 13-07-2024, 10:47 AM
(23-05-2024, 10:04 AM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Some updates to my qokedy project. Now you can search for several words, divided by comma. For example:
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Futher updates:
1. Now it is possible to search for word combinations
2. New section "Stats" added - probably useful only when using regular expressions
Combined, you can search for example for the most frequent You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
3. Added tags to words, so can search for You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. or You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
